Avoiding attending disciplinary.

[Browner]

If a coach continually fails to attend a disciplinary hearing to answer abuse charges, what are the normal escalation options?

Same Q for a player?

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Yorkshire's DC minutes all say "banned until he appears" so I suppose no appearance equals indefinite ban. How that pans out in real life I've no idea. I suppose coaches and players could attend/play in matches when banned if the club was minded to condone it.

 

[dave_clark]

don't they find him guilty, and add a number of weeks for disrespecting the system?

guessing this isn't a hypothetical, and the coach in question hadn't already pleaded guilty...

 

[Browner]

don't they find him guilty, and add a number of weeks for disrespecting the system?

guessing this isn't a hypothetical, and the coach in question hadn't already pleaded guilty...

I guess not, or why would attendance still be required.

OK, let's hypothesize, ....he gets added #weeks, who monitors coaches compliance at next matches at this level 10 ......?

If he escapes, I then vote with my feet, & never again referee at his club whilst he or key officials are there.

 

[beckett50]

Approaching this logically, and from an uninformed viewpoint...

For a hearing to have been convened and report must have been filed by someone, and escalated up the chain of command. The evidence is in the report. So, if the accused fail to attend, then surely the panel reach a decision based upon the evidence placed before them - assuming that the person who originally filed the report wished to retract?

As for costs, these are surely levied against the club in the normal fashion and, no doubt the Disciplinary Committee may want to place further sanctions on the Club for failing to ensure their members respect the due process of Law?

Or is this all to simple?

 

[OB..]

Yorkshire's DC minutes all say "banned until he appears" so I suppose no appearance equals indefinite ban. How that pans out in real life I've no idea. I suppose coaches and players could attend/play in matches when banned if the club was minded to condone it.

In Gloucestershire, a Red Carded player cannot play again until his case has been dealt with.

 

[matty1194]

If a coach continually fails to attend a disciplinary hearing to answer abuse charges, what are the normal escalation options?

Same Q for a player?

Browner, I feel your pain! Last season I was refereeing a game and had cause to banish the injured away team Captain who was stood in the in-goal area and following another score by the home team to go 65-0 up decided to call me and I quote," a F*&King cheat".

End of the game he apologises for his behaviour and this is also infront of my coach who was listening in for the match. I explain he will be getting reported for MO abuse.

He informs disicpline panel that due to his double broken leg that he cant make the meeting, this drags on for 7 months until he finally appears, me travelling back from a game that day takes a conferance call for it, outcome was he was found not guilty even though my coach and another witness both provided statements.

The most galling thing was that I was informed by a 3rd party that he had been driving in his rally car 2 months after the incident of calling me a cheat and this was all posted on good old Facebook including his own admission to a friend that he had, "gotten away with sying bad words" to the referee!! All this new evidence was sent to the panel but they decided to take no further action even though he had kept them and me waiting for 7 months!

Disipline committee totally failed in their support of me in that process.

 

[Browner]

In Gloucestershire, a Red Carded player cannot play again until his case has been dealt with.

What about 'you're a cheat' in the bar afterwards.... that doesnt get a RC ( or can it?)

 

[Simon Thomas]

[LAWS][/LAWS]

In Gloucestershire, a Red Carded player cannot play again until his case has been dealt with.

Standard across all CBs not just Gloucs, brought in by the new RFU Disciplinary Head this season.

 

[Browner]

Browner, I feel your pain! Last season I was refereeing a game and had cause to banish the injured away team Captain who was stood in the in-goal area and following another score by the home team to go 65-0 up decided to call me and I quote," a F*&King cheat".

End of the game he apologises for his behaviour and this is also infront of my coach who was listening in for the match. I explain he will be getting reported for MO abuse.

He informs disicpline panel that due to his double broken leg that he cant make the meeting, this drags on for 7 months until he finally appears, me travelling back from a game that day takes a conferance call for it, outcome was he was found not guilty even though my coach and another witness both provided statements.

The most galling thing was that I was informed by a 3rd party that he had been driving in his rally car 2 months after the incident of calling me a cheat and this was all posted on good old Facebook including his own admission to a friend that he had, "gotten away with sying bad words" to the referee!! All this new evidence was sent to the panel but they decided to take no further action even though he had kept them and me waiting for 7 months!

Discipline committee totally failed in their support of me in that process.

Matty, that's a shame, I presume their reasoning was 'lack of evidence' ? If not what?
At your refereeing level (and ambition??) I doubt you can vote with your feet without suffering fallout, but I can & i will, if I'm forced to.

Dear Society,
It is with regret that I cannot accept to referee the fixture of X v Y. in 21 days time where Coach X is actively involved, as there is an unresolved abuse charge outstanding. I'm available for another fixture on that day if any respectful clubs want a referee, hopefully this gives you ample time to appoint a replacement. Ps.....Owen Bisto Taylor says "bloody Dave Grashoff" is looking for another fixture :biggrin:

Hopefully the aforementioned matter will be resolved soon, and normal service can resume.
Yours
Brow-Unbiased Volunteer-Ner
:shrug:

 

[Browner]

Standard across all CBs not just Gloucs, brought in by the new RFU Disciplinary Head this season.

Simon/OB,
I refereed a player I'd RC'd the week beforehand.

It was the repeat offender mentioned in another thread (technical) Clearly its not my place to determine SOS ( sending off sufficient) but if it was, I would've considered it such.

What the CB process for quickly determining these type ( if there is one?) Decision by phone????
Only asking.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Simon/OB,
I refereed a player I'd RC'd the week beforehand.

It was the repeat offender mentioned in another thread (technical) Clearly its not my place to determine SOS ( sending off sufficient) but if it was, I would've considered it such.

What the CB process for quickly determining these type ( if there is one?) Decision by phone????
Only asking.

CBs Disciplinary Committees have been holding emergency meetings to process GBL pleas, and contested ones I have heard, so that players can potentially be available as fast as possible.

SOS is a rare sanction in my experience of Disc Committees.

Those meetings can be phone conferences if required.

 

[matty1194]

Matty, that's a shame, I presume their reasoning was 'lack of evidence' ? If not what?
At your refereeing level (and ambition??) I doubt you can vote with your feet without suffering fallout, but I can & i will, if I'm forced to.

Browner,

No idea what their thought process was, but there was my report, my coach ( 30 years experiance as a MO/advisor/coach in Scotland/Canada and the Military) and a supporter of the home club who heard him say it and repeat it when he was stood next to her on his intial removal from the area.

I did kick up one hell of a stink about it through my Society Committee men who were at pains to get a straight answer to simple qustions from SRU disipline.

 

[Nigib]

What about 'you're a cheat' in the bar afterwards.... that doesnt get a RC ( or can it?)

Respect for match officials is throughout the time we are there; also afterwards if there are disrespectful postings on websites (match reports, messageboards and so on). I'd report (though never had to) rather than return to my kit bag and bring the cards out...

 

[Browner]

Browner,

No idea what their thought process was, but there was my report, my coach ( 30 years experiance as a MO/advisor/coach in Scotland/Canada and the Military) and a supporter of the home club who heard him say it and repeat it when he was stood next to her on his intial removal from the area.

I did kick up one hell of a stink about it through my Society Committee men who were at pains to get a straight answer to simple qustions from SRU disipline.

Ah ha, I see ...... That'll be the dirty world of connections via politics in action then....nuff said matty

 

[TheBFG]

Not sure if others are doing it this way, but from what I understand here in zummerzet hearings are dealt with by the clubs, their findings are then sent to the CB to ensure it's be dealt with appropriately. I'm not sure about abuse cases as I think these are dealt with at the CB and likewise cases where players plead not guilty.

 

[OB..]

Not sure if others are doing it this way, but from what I understand here in zummerzet hearings are dealt with by the clubs, their findings are then sent to the CB to ensure it's be dealt with appropriately. I'm not sure about abuse cases as I think these are dealt with at the CB and likewise cases where players plead not guilty.

Our clubs are required to report the Red Card to the CB Disipline Secretary, saying what action they have taken. The usual action is a ban until a Disciplinary decision. Hearings (if needed) are held every two weeks these days

 

[didds]

There must be cases whereby for totally normal reasons somebody may be unable to attend disciplinarys, so there must be procedures in place to deal with people in abstentia.

By this, i mean genuione reasons why they can;t attend not just cos they CBA. eg somebody that works every Monday evening, where DPs are always on a Monday evening. The DP wouldn't surely expect someone to take leave to attend, if that was even possible for some people.

didds

 

[andyscott]

Disipline committee totally failed in their support of me in that process.

Matty was this an Army game? I had one and witnessed by an AR and still the little twat got away with it.

 

[andyscott]

Matty was this an Army game? I had one and witnessed by an AR and still the little twat got away with it.

I also always wear a voice recorder to every game now.