Ball in touch and correct use of whistle

crossref


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It can be if the players understand that!
Really it's not an issue either way. If they go quick and you're not happy to allow play continue its no problem to call it back.
i agree.
I was thinking of the other way round - player has the ball in his hand shaping to take a QTI .. and a defender is in front of him defending it ... but actually the QTI not on.... or is no longer on. And you want to signal that to everyone
 

Phil E


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The problem is more that they want to take a QTI, then you blow the whistle and they think they can't because you have stopped the game.
I know they should know, but why make it difficult for them, we are meant to be facilitating a game, not blindly adhering to the laws.
 

tim White


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You can't be wrong if you blow the whistle for touch. Then worry about the Quick Throw and deal with that separately.
 

crossref


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You can't be wrong if you blow the whistle for touch. Then worry about the Quick Throw and deal with that separately.
you would be wrong in my society -- because we were told not to...
 

Phil E


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You can't be wrong if you blow the whistle for touch. Then worry about the Quick Throw and deal with that separately.

And you can't be wrong if you just let it breathe for a while.
 

chbg


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What dictates if a QT is allowed in terms of contact with "things". The law book (law 18.5) specifies no QT if the ball is touched by anyone other than the player throwing in or the player who carried the ball into touch. I've seen written online that no QT if the ball touches a fixed object, but play on if it touches a movable object, but I can't find this mentioned in the Laws.

I believe this is correct based on watching Leicester v Saracens yesterday... only a whistle when the ball ended up in the seats.
Contact with any object or objects does not prevent a QTI. Or indeed with any animal. Only "anyone other than the player throwing in or the player who carried the ball into touch".

But there comes a time when the referee may well wish to 'manage' the situation and force a normal lineout.
 

crossref


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Last fall, I saw one team take two QTs off of successful 50/22s. Both resulted in tries.
i have now seen it attempted once on a 50/22 (live - alert defence and they changed their mind) and successfully done once (on TV) -- but never seen it even attempted from a PK
 

Ciaran Trainor


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I blow the whistle when I know the QTI is not an option. i.e. is touched by anyone except the player taking into touch or the player trying the QTI.
It's an urban myth that if the ball touches the wall/fence/rope etc you cannot take a QTI.
I've never heard or seen anything to exempt moveable benches, chairs, water bottles first aid box etc so would still allow the QTI.
For me the law is clear however you do have the whistle to manage it!
 

Drift


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Question for the community... when do you blow your whistle for a ball going into touch? Does a whistle blow indicate the ball is in touch or that the ball is dead? Does this impact what can and cannot happen next, ie a quick throw? Should you always blow the whistle when the ball goes into touch?

Also, are there guidelines somewhere that fully details when you should use your whistle? I appreciate most of it is obvious, but there are a few little things that are less obvious for a new referee, like blowing when a conversion is successful but not blowing if missed.
Not usually, if it’s a real tight call and the AR flag goes up I will to stop play, but if it’s kicked and it’s definitely in touch I won’t. Everyone knows what happens when the ball goes out, no need to get on the whistle for it.
 

Phil E


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Not usually, if it’s a real tight call and the AR flag goes up I will to stop play, but if it’s kicked and it’s definitely in touch I won’t. Everyone knows what happens when the ball goes out, no need to get on the whistle for it.

Except the law requires you to blow the whistle when the ball goes dead.
 

didds

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and now we are back to zombie-ball ... cos the ball has gone dead but ISN'T dead on the basis a QTI is on the cards, and/or a quickly taken lineout once 2 from each side are in place etc. which could really be quite quick.
 

Phil E


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and now we are back to zombie-ball ... cos the ball has gone dead but ISN'T dead on the basis a QTI is on the cards, and/or a quickly taken lineout once 2 from each side are in place etc. which could really be quite quick.

Well the law says blow when the ball becomes dead, you could argue that it's not dead until the QT is no longer an option?
 

crossref


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Well the law says blow when the ball becomes dead, you could argue that it's not dead until the QT is no longer an option?
we always blow for a PK/FK .... and the ball is not dead.
and we blow for a GLDO and a 22DO ... and the ball is not dead

on the other hand we DON'T blow after an unsuccessful conversion .. but the ball IS dead.

at the start of each half we blow the whistle to indicate that the ball is LIVE.

the whistle doesn't really have much to do with whether the ball is dead. despite what is says in the laws
 

Phil E


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we always blow for a PK/FK .... and the ball is not dead.
and we blow for a GLDO and a 22DO ... and the ball is not dead
on the other hand we DON'T blow after an unsuccessful conversion .. but the ball IS dead.
at the start of each half we blow the whistle to indicate that the ball is LIVE.
the whistle doesn't really have much to do with whether the ball is dead. despite what is says in the laws

8. The referee carries a whistle and blows it:
a. To indicate the beginning and the end of each half of the match.
b. To stop play. The referee has the power to stop play at any time.
c. To indicate a score or a touch down.
d. To caution or send off an offender and a second time when the penalty or
penalty try is awarded.
e. When the ball becomes dead, other than after a failed conversion kick.
f. When the ball becomes unplayable.
g. When a penalty, free-kick or scrum is awarded.
h. When it would be dangerous to let play continue or when it is suspected
that a player is seriously injured.


9. The referee will deem the ball to be dead when:
a. The ball is in touch or touch in-goal.
b. The ball is grounded in in-goal.
c. A conversion has been attempted.
d. A try, penalty or dropped goal has been scored.
e. The ball or ball-carrier touches the dead-ball line or anything beyond it.
f. The ball hits anything above the playing area.
 

crossref


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exactly

8. The referee carries a whistle and blows it:

a. To indicate the beginning and the end of each half of the match. ball becomes LIVE
b. To stop play. The referee has the power to stop play at any time. ball becomes DEAD
c. To indicate a score ball becomes DEAD or a touch down. ball may remain LIVE or may become DEAD depending
d. To caution or send off an offender ball becomes DEAD and a second time when the penalty or penalty try is awarded. ball becomes LIVE
e. When the ball becomes dead ball becomes DEAD other than after a failed conversion kick. ball remains DEAD
f. When the ball becomes unplayable. ball becomes DEAD
g. When a penalty ball remains LIVE. free-kick ball remains LIVE. or scrum is awarded. ball becomes DEAD
h. When it would be dangerous to let play continue or when it is suspected that a player is seriously injured ball becomes DEAD.
 
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Locke


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Phil’s post shows the law is quite clear, although it appears none of us, including me, do it the way it’s written. Law 6.9.a says we should blow the whistle when the ball or ball carrier are in touch. But the law also clearly allows a quick throw in under the proper conditions. So blowing the whistle shouldn’t prevent a QTI or indicate that one is not available.
Again, to be clear, I don’t blow the whistle when the ball goes in touch unless it seems unclear to the players whether or not it is in touch. I also don’t blow it when the QTI is no longer an option unless the team throwing in seems to still be considering it an option.
But the law is clear, even if it following it to the letter would, in my opinion, cause more confusion than it removes.
 

chbg


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For me, a (softly blown) whistle for Touch doesn't mean that the QTI is not on, just as a (more strongly blown) whistle for a PK doesn't mean that a quick tap is not possible. I will always react to a QTI with either another whistle to halt play, if it is not a legal QTI, or a loud 'Play' to tell all that I have accepted the QTI.
 
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