Boots on Bodieshttp://rugbyrefs.com/forums/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=19

[Donal1988]

I had this situation two Saturdays ago. Very competitive fixture. A lot at stake and a niggly little game too. I actually only ended up doing the game as the first choice referee got injured.

Red #7 is killing the ball after a tackle around the halfway line. "Red 7 roll away" is my call. He is given a clearly deliberate shoeing by a few Black players. I blow whistle and give a warning to Red #7. I inform Black captain that I am reversing the penalty for boots on the player. I tell him that I saw Red player offending and that if they allowed me to referee the game they would have had a penalty kick. Instead it has been reserved. Captain got a bit mouthy at this explanation and was marched back 10m.

At half time I heard Black coach telling his team to ignore what I was saying and to "stamp the legs off anyone who lies in the way". I approached him and told him that I can't ignore him telling his team to intentionally stamp on opposing players. I advised him that intentional "rucking" is no longer permitted. He reluctantly accepted this but I could tell he was humouring me.

10 minutes into the second half the exact same thing happened. Red #7 making a nuisance of himself. He got a fairly bad shoeing for it. I gave a yellow card to him for not releasing the tackler after getting a warning. I also gave a yellow card to the "rucker" from Black. I awarded Red the penalty kick.

Was I being over protective of the players or handled well. Anyone else handle it differently?

 

[dave_clark]

hmm, has a thread merge gone wrong? i saw the subject and thought "spam"...

 

[Donal1988]

I can't change title for some reason.

 

[dave_clark]

on topic, i think that speaking to the coach may have been OTT. a warning to the captain may have been more in order.

was this adult, or youth?

 

[dave_clark]

also, maybe the stamper (after the explicit warning) should have been given a RC.

 

[Donal1988]

U21 game, the reason I approached the coach about it was that I was on the sideline drinking my water at halftime. He and I had to walk past each other. I heard him tell his players to infringe in such a way that could cause injury. I wasn't going to ignore that.

 

[Donal1988]

If the "stamp" had been a real downward stamp or to the head, ankle, wrist, knee etc I would have gone red. Red would have definitely been excessive though. I have no doubt that 25 years ago it would have been legal. Red player was on the wrong side and the Black player gave his shins a shoeing. It gave him a lot of scratches and scrapes but not worthy of red card.

 

[Davet]

If a player has just killed the ball what advantage is likely?

Certainly after the 1st incident I would suggest you blow up the PK immediately to save the shoeing and prevent flash points and prevent the RC to the opponents tempted into a shoeing- a YC against the ball killer would be in order

 

[Simon Thomas]

Blow earlier, don't bother with the prevetative and defuse the potential flashpoint.

Deliberate boots to body it is PK, and YC - if near head or joints RC.

 

[Donal1988]

Thanks guys, it didn't even dawn on me to do that. Still we'll learn from it and move on.

 

[Dixie]

Boots deliberately on bodies is a conscious decision to inflict injury on an opponent using the only inorganic weapon available. Interesting that you should view this as not worthy of a RC in the context of a player having been told to ignore the referee and commit an act of GBH in order to get his own way. Do you need bladed weapons in Ireland for an RC offence? :rc:

 

[richie]

agree with previous posts, spot the potential flash points early , blow it up quickly(before approaching players start licking their lips:drool: at the sight of red 7 on wrong side)PK and bin the pup. Eveyone happy

 

[temujin]

As a former player (flanker) now reffing it winds me up to see players flop deliberately over the ball and kill play, lying there waving their arms about trying to look all innocent and apologetic. I accept the need for safety but most of the time I think a good, legal shoeing would be just the encouragement needed to discourage this activity

 

[Phil E]

a good, legal shoeing

There is no such thing :nono:

 

[temujin]

There is no such thing :nono:

There used to be, that's what I was refering to.

 

[Na Madrai]

As I have stated in other threads, boots on bodies in rucks are always carded - even if the player is fully deserving of a good shoeing!!!!

 

[Deeps]

I think a good, legal shoeing would be just the encouragement needed to discourage this activity

I am afraid that is dinosaur thinking, we have moved on from that attitude now.

What works is to penalise the flopper on each and every occasion, working up to a YC quite quickly. By blowing as soon as it happens you prevent the opposition from even thinking about using the boot while indicating your zero tolerance for players who kill the ball.

 

[The umpire]

As I have stated in other threads, boots on bodies in rucks are always carded - even if the player is fully deserving of a good shoeing!!!!

not if you were watching quins and Cardiff - just seen it on ITV4, in front of the ref too, who otherwise is usually a top chap

 

[Phil E]

There used to be, that's what I was refering to.

I think our resident historian may disagree :chin:

 

[Account Deleted]

Would someone who believes that you were allowed to rake / stamp in the "Good old days" please provide some evidence that this was the case.