Captain Effectiveness

[woody]

All levels of rugby in my area have been struggling a bit with rugby culture in the last couple of years. This year, there is a concerted effort to right the ship at the U19 level. Last week, I had one of the matches that challenged the culture (foul language, unsportsmanlike behavior and a general disrespectfulness). I thought I handled the match well by keeping a tight lid on things. 1 RC and 1YC to yellow and 2YC to blue. The three YC were for dangerous tackles, taking the player past horizontal. The red was for a player losing his cool on a penalty. He proceeded to curse up a storm for which a YC was merited. He didn't like that, so it turned red. Now, I see that yellow is on my schedule for the first round of the playoffs this weekend.

The one management tool I knew was not working during this game was with the yellow captain. He was not a team leader and had absolutely no control. Are there any suggestions on how to coax the captain into his role?

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

When I saw the thread title I thought it was about Super Heroes!

At some levels captains are there by virtue of they are the only ones who can be arsed to collect subs, remember the kit and write the team card out.

My "worst" game this year was not helped by having an ineffective captain.
I had to YC three of his team before the message got through by which time the game had passed them by. I spoke to both skippers, tried the "work with me" bit, spoke to him on his own, tried the "take charge of your players" bit. After 30 minutes (probably too late by then) the cards came out regularly for 10 minutes either side of half time and by then the message got through. Last 20 minutes was fine.

He was as much use as a chocolate tea-pot.

Some will venture you go down the "if you can't do the job (captaincy) find me someone who will" or perhaps marginalise the captain by dealing with a team member who seems to have the respect of his team. These are difficult things to do (I think).

Perhaps with your newly accquired "hard assed" approach you will have no trouble. Like many suggest don't go into the next game assuming the worst.

 

[Robert Burns]

You always know you're in for a fun day when you turn up to the team, ask who the capatin is and they all look at each other and the coach says 'John, you can be captain today!'

:norc:

 

[FlipFlop]

On a more helpful note - was there anyone on Yellow who appeared to have the respect of the players and was listened to?

You can always use them to communicate back to the team etc.

Failing that, all you can do is make sure you tell the captain before the game you expect him to control his team and pass your communications on etc. And then it is down to them.

 

[Taff]

... The one management tool I knew was not working during this game was with the yellow captain. He was not a team leader and had absolutely no control. Are there any suggestions on how to coax the captain into his role?

... was there anyone on Yellow who appeared to have the respect of the players and was listened to? .... Failing that, all you can do is make sure you tell the captain before the game you expect him to control his team and pass your communications on etc. And then it is down to them.

I can see this being a problem for me, especially with U16s when there are few "natural" captains who seem to gain team respect instinctively. Sadly, if they're not up to the job I suspect there is very little you can do to "coax" him / her into the role - especially in the 60 - 80 minutes you have available. The only practical solution I can think of is to by-pass the captain and talk to the team directly, especially if it's a safety issue. Eg if you want to prevent collapsed scrums, but the captain is not passing this on to the FRs etc, what other choice have you got?

 

[SimonSmith]

If he was in the backs, get the senior forward, or vice versa.
Bring them both to the captain's briefing, then interact with them as appropriate.

It's rare to get two complete halfwits in leadership roles.

 

[woody]

Some will venture you go down the "if you can't do the job (captaincy) find me someone who will" or perhaps marginalise the captain by dealing with a team member who seems to have the respect of his team. These are difficult things to do (I think).

Perhaps with your newly accquired "hard assed" approach you will have no trouble. Like many suggest don't go into the next game assuming the worst.

The main problem I had with Yellow was being disrespectful to me and the game. I'm reluctant to marginalize the captain for the sake of escalating this problem. Listening to instructions about offsides and such went as well as any U19.

I'll heed the last bit about not assuming the worst.

 

[Davet]

The main problem I had with Yellow was being disrespectful to me and the game

Ping it, first time.

Second time, ping it and talk to Captain

Third time ping it YC and talk again to Captain. Tell him to tell them, tell him time is off while he does so, and insist that he get his players together and pass on the message, if he doesn't get them together tell him to do so.

After that just YC the dissent, RC for 2 x YC if they end up with 5 players on the pitch that's their problem.

But they are unlikely to be that stupid.

 

[tim White]

"After that just YC the dissent, RC for 2 x YC if they end up with 5 players on the pitch that's their problem." WhooOOOoo, now who's being hard assed?

 

[Davet]

Tim - maybe - but as I said - I really think most sides would get the message waaaaaay before we got to 2 YCs

 

[Scarlet Al]

Lay down the Law pre match: "Discipline, manage it yourself captain, or I will have to."

Then carry it through. PK, PK + Talk then pocket.

 

[Deeps]

I really do think the respective unions should instigate leadership training courses and provide this training at club level, perhaps even make it a qualification. The greatest missing entity in modern rugby is the team leadership on the field of play invariably placing an even greater responsibility on the referee to do all the work.

There is an adage that 'Some are born great while others have greatness thrust upon them'. You often hear the term 'natural leader' being bandied about too and we just hope that the anointed one is available for today's game "He's not! Oh well, another crap day then."

There is nothing mysterious about leadership, it does not need the hand of the Almighty laid upon us to do it, it can actually be taught.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Woody

Everything that everyone has suggested here is pretty good advice. Now heres another piece.

Seek out the yellow coach and tell him how difficult it was for you because their captain was ineffective. Point put out that it is disadvantaging his team to have a captain who doesn't know is job, and that he needs to get this sorted sooner rather than later.

 

[Jenko]

I really do think the respective unions should instigate leadership training courses and provide this training at club level, perhaps even make it a qualification. The greatest missing entity in modern rugby is the team leadership on the field of play invariably placing an even greater responsibility on the referee to do all the work.

There is an adage that 'Some are born great while others have greatness thrust upon them'. You often hear the term 'natural leader' being bandied about too and we just hope that the anointed one is available for today's game "He's not! Oh well, another crap day then."

There is nothing mysterious about leadership, it does not need the hand of the Almighty laid upon us to do it, it can actually be taught.

Our Director of Rugby (ex RN PTI) is putting together a workshop for just that purpose at our club for all team captains / potential captains from U12 to 1stXV.

 

[ballsie]

So ex RN PTI is an expert on leadership nows theres a subject for heated debate
good luck with that one
I know of at least one young man close to me who would disagree with that statement and I have to agree with him
good luck (THIS POSITION READYYYYYYYYY)

 

[Dixie]

There is nothing mysterious about leadership, it does not need the hand of the Almighty laid upon us to do it, it can actually be taught.

Pity no-one told Gordon Brown about this in the last 13 years ... or, indeed, the last 30!

 

[Taff]

... There is nothing mysterious about leadership, it does not need the hand of the Almighty laid upon us to do it, it can actually be taught.

Agreed, but I assume it's easier to teach some people than others. Some take to it like a duck to water, while others will struggle no matter how much training they have.

It's interesting in my boys U15s teams to see the "natural" captains and compare them to the actual captains. Two in particular are head and shoulders above the others - and it's pretty easy to see which ones they are. :chin:

 

[Phil E]

Our Director of Rugby (ex RN PTI).

Let me guess. He's not very bright, but he can lift heavy weights :biggrin:

 

[woody]

Lee's point about this being a different week was very true. Team was much more disciplined, although not so much from the captain. In any case they brought the right attitude and it sure made the game much more fun.

Thanks for the advise.

 

[Robert Burns]

It's rare to get two complete halfwits in leadership roles.

Have you been paying attention to British politics lately?