Cavalry Charge no longer illegal

crossref


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Well, that's interesting
The prohibition on Cavalry Charge has been removed from the new Law Book
See 9.23 and the definitions

So presumably we will see teams start to use that move again .. it will be like the old days.

But I find that quite surprising
 

crossref


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so question for didds - as our resident coach ?

Will you prepare a Cavalry Charge move for the September ? I think it would work!

But there is a good chance the ref won't be aware of the Law change, and will ping it - so do you check it with the ref in advance (and possibly lose the advantage of surprise if he mentions to the oppo?)

As a ref I thnik this change is quite challenging to manage : if a Cavalry Charge is dangerous (as we were led to believe) a surprise Cavalry Charge must be even more dangerous still. Should teams be warned?
 

Flish


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From https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/83/833a8e4b-7db1-466e-90cc-80fa5b4c51d9/Global%20Law%20Trials%20-%20Points%20of%20Clarification.pdf

RFU Comments sent to World Rugby
Is the Cavalry Charge no longer an illegal type of attack?


World Rugby Reply
It rarely happens and if it does, it could be dealt with under law 9.11 if the game situation appears to be dangerous play.

This I like, makes my life simpler, no was it / wasn’t it debate, just a simple, “I saw that as dangerous play, so PK”
 

crossref


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well I never could understand why they were ever thought dangerous in first place --- it's just a player taking the ball at speed. Happens all the time, normally we applaud.



GLOBAL LAW TRIAL
Cavalry charge: An illegal type of attack, which usually happens near the goal line, when the attacking team is awarded a penalty or free-kick. At a signal from the kicker, a line of attacking players charge forward from a distance. When they get near, the kicker taps the ball and passes to a player.
 

crossref


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BTW world rugby's answer is just crazy

RFU Comments sent to World Rugby World Rugby Reply
Is the Cavalry Charge no longer an illegal
type of attack?

Answer
It rarely happens and if it does, it could be
dealt with under law 9.11 if the game
situation appears to be dangerous play

the reason it rarely happens is because it's illegal !

now it is legal, I expect we'll see it quite frequently. We already see PKs close to the line taken as quick taps, from next month it will be a quick tap passed to someone running at speed. Of course.
 

thepercy


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BTW world rugby's answer is just crazy

RFU Comments sent to World Rugby World Rugby Reply
Is the Cavalry Charge no longer an illegal
type of attack?



the reason it rarely happens is because it's illegal !

now it is legal, I expect we'll see it quite frequently. We already see PKs close to the line taken as quick taps, from next month it will be a quick tap passed to someone running at speed. Of course.

Was one person running onto take a pass from a quickly tapped ball previously illegal? No signal and no line of players.
 

crossref


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Was one person running onto take a pass from a quickly tapped ball previously illegal? No signal and no line of players.

it used to be illegal until 2017, then they changed it to only multiple players being illegal.

but we didn't see one person running, did we? is that your point?

yes, I wonder why not - because no one noticed? Because one person running is a bit obvious who it's going to ?
 

didds

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so question for didds - as our resident coach ?

Will you prepare a Cavalry Charge move for the September ? I think it would work!

I think the honest answer to that question is another question first - am I preparing a team to win matches, or become better players?

the reality of that for me is am I coaching a club 1st XV or an U16s squad?

1st XV squad - I'd be checking with my local refs society to ensure that if it occurred there wouod be NO penalty - and also each individual ref each week - and would be allowed to occur for starters. Then yes, I probably would intriduce it into the armoury. Along with ways to defend it.

If I am coaching an U16 squad - probably not. For many reasons, including the elf and safetee of my players at a young age, but also that given the amount of opportunities to use it compared to scrums, lineouts, rucks,mauls, kickoffs and restarts why would i take time away from improving those six ?

didds
 
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Balones

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I think the honest answer to that question is another question first - am I preparing a team to win matches, or become better players?

the reality of that for me is am I coaching a club 1st XV or an U16s squad?

1st XV squad - I'd be checking with my local refs society to ensure that if it occurred there wouod be NO penalty - and also each individual ref each week - and would be allowed to occur for starters. Then yes, I probably would intriduce it into the armoury. Along with ways to defend it.

If I am coaching an U16 squad - probably not. For many reasons, including the elf and safetee of my players at a young age, but also that given the amount of opportunities to use it compared to scrums, lineouts, rucks,mauls, kickoffs and restarts why would i take time away from improving those six ?

didds

A well reasoned response. I think the real problem will arise from the fact that some CCs will look more dangerous than others. Also, when does the ref blow the whistle? Before contact is made or early because it looks dangerous? If I was a short 12 stone player standing on the line looking at a big 19 stone player gathering speed I’d hope it would be early!
 

Jolly Roger


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The LIKE button seems to have disappeared so I just wanted to say that I agree 100% having dealt with that situation a few times back in the day and come off on the worse side of collisions before it was banned.

I see no logic whatsoever in removing a sensible law that has been accepted without challenge for years and now opening up the game for potentially dangerous situations and asking refs to judge as whether it looks dangerous or not.
If we blew every time we saw something that looked potentially dangerous then there would be no game.

Unnecessary confusion.
 

crossref


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The LIKE button seems to have disappeared so I just wanted to say that I agree 100% having dealt with that situation a few times back in the day and come off on the worse side of collisions before it was banned.

I see no logic whatsoever in removing a sensible law that has been accepted without challenge for years and now opening up the game for potentially dangerous situations and asking refs to judge as whether it looks dangerous or not.
If we blew every time we saw something that looked potentially dangerous then there would be no game.

Unnecessary confusion.

What's dangerous about a cavalry charge (as defined)
 

Jz558


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I understand from previous discussions on the subject that there is a wide range of opinion on the matter with many seeing them as no more dangerous than a pick and go from the base of a scrum. My opinion of cavalry charges is formed from the number of defenders who I saw knocked unconscious defending a 5m penalty when I was playing. The answer from the RFU is ridiculous, as has been pointed out and I agree with Jolly Roger's comments in seeing no reason for removing a sensible law to replace it with a confused message at a time when we are trying to reduce concussions.
 

crossref


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I understand from previous discussions on the subject that there is a wide range of opinion on the matter with many seeing them as no more dangerous than a pick and go from the base of a scrum. My opinion of cavalry charges is formed from the number of defenders who I saw knocked unconscious defending a 5m penalty when I was playing. The answer from the RFU is ridiculous, as has been pointed out and I agree with Jolly Roger's comments in seeing no reason for removing a sensible law to replace it with a confused message at a time when we are trying to reduce concussions.

Can you describe the move? I wonder if was actually a flying wedge (lots of players latched on) rather than a cavalry charge (players spread out running decoy lines, ball goes to one of them)


Cavalry charge: An illegal type of attack, which usually happens near the goal line, when the attacking team is awarded a penalty or free-kick. At a signal from the kicker, a line of attacking players charge forward from a distance. When they get near, the kicker taps the ball and passes to a player.
 

Jz558


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Can you describe the move? I wonder if was actually a flying wedge (lots of players latched on) rather than a cavalry charge (players spread out running decoy lines, ball goes to one of them)

The move consists of the scrum half standing at the mark with the ball on the deck. On his/her signal the designated team mates run forward and the ball is passed to the chosen behemoth as, or shortly before, he/she gets level with the 9. The receiver has, at this stage, achieved flying speed and assumes that the momentum will take him/her over the goal line. This is, as you point out, different from a flying wedge.

The problem was that whilst the receiver is moving at full speed, the defence must remain stationary until the ball is played and, as this tactic is only effective from a 5m penalty, impact point is usually just in front of the goal line. The frequent injury rate was why it was banned in the first place. I must have missed the clamour for it to be reinstated.
 

Balones

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The ball doesn’t have to be on the deck.
When coaching I actually devised a move whereby the opposition couldn’t see the ball being kicked because other players blocked the view of the ball.
 

crossref


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. I must have missed the clamour for it to be reinstated.

indeed, I think it has taken everyone by surprise.

my theory is that the lawmakers were thinking about flying wedge type formations, where teammates latch on, and those situations of course are now all covered by the latching on trial.


i.e I suspect they have legalised the cavalry charge by accident.

I am absolutely sure we'll see it in action next season: for a team lucky enough to have a behemoth who can catch while charging into the oppo (not a small thing for some behemoths!) , it's an effective move.
 
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Jz558


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That it was banned for being dangerous play during a period where no one gave a monkeys about concussion and raking was seen as the receivers fault for falling on the wrong side should perhaps be a bit of a clue. What troubles me is that players and teams at the upper levels will largely be able to cope but lower down the skill tree and in youth rugby I suspect we will feel the full unpleasant effects.
 

didds

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i
i.e I suspect they have legalised the cavalry charge by accident.

And I 100% concur.

Yet again it is clear that NOBODY in the laws department EVER thinks what such (re)writes actually MEAN. If a bunch of (mostly) grass roots refs, coaches and supporters can spot this stuff all but immediately, how can THEY not?

didds
 

Zebra1922


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I like the removal of the Calvary charge definition as it removes something that was illogical. You can take a run up towards a ruck occurring within 5m of the goal line, but you can’t do it from a penalty.

If its dangerous, do something about rucks near the goal line so we have equivalence. If it’s not, remove the law. I’m comfortable with the law removal.
 
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