Clarification on where the defending scrum-half may move to once the scrum begins?

[jdeagro]

Did he ever actually get to the rear foot offside line? Presumably the Laws allow him to retreat to just in front of the rear of the scrum, and then come forward again? I'd be more worried about when he kicked (at) the ball - in another player's hands?

But this is, of course, TV rugby.

I'd say so (helps that the hash line is there):


And from the other side on the replay, about 1 second later, still seems he crossed that last foot:


But I agree, I'd be more focused on the PK for kicking the ball out of the opposing scrum-half's hands.

 

[didds]

right foot clearly "onside". left foot a bery pedantic call to say it actually PAST the line of the rearmost foot aka #8s heel.

 

[jdeagro]

right foot clearly "onside". left foot a bery pedantic call to say it actually PAST the line of the rearmost foot aka #8s heel.

Sure, as pedantic as letting the thrower in a lineout stand on the touchline as well lol.

 

[Dickie E]

Sure, as pedantic as letting the thrower in a lineout stand on the touchline as well lol.

Standing on touchline is ok as it is in touch

 

[jdeagro]

Standing on touchline is ok as it is in touch

Sorry, I meant just barely on the field of play beyond the touchline, that is.

 

[Stu10]

In real time, a referee can't check if he is 1 inch in front or behind the 8's foot... in my mind he has clearly retreated to the back foot, therefore law 19.30.b applies. I don't think a player would argue once reminded of this law in this scenario.

 

[didds]

Sure, as pedantic as letting the thrower in a lineout stand on the touchline as well lol.

or even in field!

 

[Blackberry]

Does the "non-possession scrum" half have to stand next to the "putting in scrum half" at the start of the scrum, or can they go to the hind most foot offside line even before the ball goes in?

 

[Balones]

Does the "non-possession scrum" half have to stand next to the "putting in scrum half" at the start of the scrum, or can they go to the hind most foot offside line even before the ball goes in?when I am reviewing a referee. It is against the law.

To answer the second part of your question, not when I am reviewing a referee. It is against the law.

 

[Blackberry]

To answer the second part of your question, not when I am reviewing a referee. It is against the law.

Ooookaaaay... which law says where you have to go at the start? Law 30 describes three options in the same tense, it certainly does not sequence them.

It says the sh not in possession: goes to next to the other scrum half (option a below), goes to the back foot offside line (option b below) or goes to the back 5 metres line (option c below) .

Which law are you using to say they have to start at option a?

• Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team not in possession:

1. Takes up a position with both feet behind the ball and close to the scrum but not in the space between the flanker and the number eight or
2. Permanently retires to a point on the offside line either at that team’s hindmost foot, or
3. Permanently retires at least five metres behind the hindmost foot.

 

[crossref]

'permanently retires' kinda implies that they started off in (a) and then retired.

but I take your point.

 

[Phil E]

Does the "non-possession scrum" half have to stand next to the "putting in scrum half" at the start of the scrum, or can they go to the hind most foot offside line even before the ball goes in?

Yes and No. Next to the other SH or on the backs offside line.

19.28. Prior to the start of play in the scrum, the scrum-half of the team not throwing
in the ball stands :
a. On that team's side of the middle line next to the opposing scrum-half, or
b. At least five metres behind the hindmost foot of their team's last player in
the scrum and remains there until the completion of the scrum.

 

[DocP]

Law 19.28.a/b define where the non putting in SH stands prior to the scrum starting

a. On that team's side of the middle line next to the opposing scrum-half or,

b. At least five meteres behind the hindmost foot of their team's last player in the scrum and remains there until the completion of the scrum

 

[Blackberry]

Yes and No. Next to the other SH or on the backs offside line.

19.28. Prior to the start of play in the scrum, the scrum-half of the team not throwing
in the ball stands :
a. On that team's side of the middle line next to the opposing scrum-half, or
b. At least five metres behind the hindmost foot of their team's last player in
the scrum and remains there until the completion of the scrum.

Thanks, that's nailed it!

 

[Balones]

Ooookaaaay... which law says where you have to go at the start? Law 30 describes three options in the same tense, it certainly does not sequence them.

It says the sh not in possession: goes to next to the other scrum half (option a below), goes to the back foot offside line (option b below) or goes to the back 5 metres line (option c below) .

Which law are you using to say they have to start at option a?

• Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team not in possession:

1. Takes up a position with both feet behind the ball and close to the scrum but not in the space between the flanker and the number eight or
2. Permanently retires to a point on the offside line either at that team’s hindmost foot, or
3. Permanently retires at least five metres behind the hindmost foot.

I think you have been answered by other members of the forum?

 

[Blackberry]

Law 19.28.a/b define where the non putting in SH stands prior to the scrum starting

a. On that team's side of the middle line next to the opposing scrum-half or,

b. At least five meteres behind the hindmost foot of their team's last player in the scrum and remains there until the completion of the scrum

Thanks, nailed it! Much obliged