Crusaders vs. Hurricanes - Forward Pass, seriously?

[talbazar]

We all thanked the effort from the IRB (with videos and all) to define clearly what a forward pass is and particularly the fact that one shouldn't look at how the ball travels but how it leaves the ball carrier's hands. Didn't we?

Well, it looks like Ref and TMO for this yesterday's Super 14 game didn't read the memos :sad:

Am I the only one thinking that's a try every day and twice on Sundays?
Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L6YXYhvjvYI#t=3560

Thoughts?
Pierre.

 

[Ian_Cook]

We all thanked the effort from the IRB (with videos and all) to define clearly what a forward pass is and particularly the fact that one shouldn't look at how the ball travels but how it leaves the ball carrier's hands. Didn't we?

Well, it looks like Ref and TMO for this yesterday's Super 14 game didn't read the memos :sad:

Am I the only one thinking that's a try every day and twice on Sundays?
Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L6YXYhvjvYI#t=3560

Thoughts?
Pierre.

I think it probably was forward out of the hand, but I'm not the person to ask (Crusaders supporter), and I would have no quibbles if it had been awarded because IMO it was not clear and obvious.

 

[The Fat]

Officials got it wrong IMO

 

[tim White]

If the tackled player had stayed on his feet and could keep running they would not even bother looking at this.:eng: Problem is, they showed slo-mo in which the ball lands ahead of the point of release. Perhaps TMO protocols painted them into a corner? :shrug:

 

[john g]

Officials got it wrong IMO

Is this happening a lot this year with TMO decisions?

 

[Dickie E]

play on for me

 

[OB..]

If the tackled player had stayed on his feet and could keep running they would not even bother looking at this.

The problem with that argument is that he was already being slowed down or stopped by the tackle.

I found it difficult to be sure, but thought it probably was forward (my 7 year old grand-daughter was certain it was forward!). Happy to leave those ones to the officials.

 

[tim White]

The problem with that argument is that he was already being slowed down or stopped by the tackle.

That was my point; if he had not been slowed down in the tackle no-one would be asking if it was a forward pass. But because he was slowed down it LOOKED FORWARD BY MILES.

 

[leaguerefaus]

That was my point; if he had not been slowed down in the tackle no-one would be asking if it was a forward pass. But because he was slowed down it LOOKED FORWARD BY MILES.

I believe OB's point is that if you have a player running fast, and a player running slow, and they both throw the exact same pass, the ball thrown by the faster player will travel further forward. Therefore he believes the player was running so slow that the ball could probably not have gone so far forward if it was initially thrown backwards.

I tend to agree.

 

[talbazar]

Personally I don't care where the ball lands...

Even in slow-mo, when you look at ball carrier's left hand when he passes the ball, I can't see how he can possibly "pass the ball forward": his arm's got this "pendulum" motion from front to back where the ball leaves his palm... How can he "pass the ball forward?"

Or maybe I'm really missing something (which is totally possible)...

 

[talbazar]

I believe OB's point is that if you have a player running fast, and a player running slow, and they both throw the exact same pass, the ball thrown by the faster player will travel further forward. Therefore he believes the player was running so slow that the ball could probably not have gone so far forward if it was initially thrown backwards.

I tend to agree.

Well.... Depends on the wind too... ;-)

 

[OB..]

I believe OB's point is that if you have a player running fast, and a player running slow, and they both throw the exact same pass, the ball thrown by the faster player will travel further forward. Therefore he believes the player was running so slow that the ball could probably not have gone so far forward if it was initially thrown backwards.

I tend to agree.

That was my point.

The player is offloading under pressure. From the somewhat inadequate camera angle, I think he did in fact release the ball forward. I am not interested in arguing how he managed that, just judgng that he did.

(How is in fact easy: the ball rolls off the top of the hand, but I cannot see that properly.)

 

[crossref]

it seems to me he passed it forward relative to himself and his own motion, so it was a forward pass.
but it's a tough one.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I believe OB's point is that if you have a player running fast, and a player running slow, and they both throw the exact same pass, the ball thrown by the faster player will travel further forward. Therefore he believes the player was running so slow that the ball could probably not have gone so far forward if it was initially thrown backwards.

I tend to agree.

So do I.

You can start with a player standing still. He has no forward motion (momentum component is zero) so any and all forward motion of the ball is created by the thrower. If he throws the ball and it travels forward, he has thrown the ball forward; end of. In fact you can use this example to see how this could have happened even if the thrower appears to make a backwards movement. It can also answer Talbazar's question as to how this is possible.

A player starts with the ball in, say, his left hand; the beginning of his arm swing is forward and it arcs around until it is going backwards, but the ball rolls off his fingers and leaves his hand while his hand/arm is still moving forward. He finishes the swing of his arm going backwards, giving the impression that he had passed the ball with a backwards motion.

However, in this case, its less clear. The thrower passed the ball with a sort of "shovelling" action with his palm upturned. It appears to me that the ball rolled off his fingers and he wasn't really in control of it. As I said, it wasn't clear and obvious to me (and the differing opinions here tend to support that) so I would have had no problem had the try been awarded.

 

[Rushforth]

You can start with a player standing still. He has no forward motion (momentum component is zero) so any and all forward motion of the ball is created by the thrower. If he throws the ball and it travels forward, he has thrown the ball forward; end of.

You seem to live in a world where wind does not exist.

 

[Ian_Cook]

You seem to live in a world where wind does not exist.

Its my example. If wind was a factor, I would have said so. I didn't, so it wasn't.

I tend to grant that most posters here would have the intelligence to realise that.

 

[Drift]

What time?

 

[Ian_Cook]

What time?

The OP's link should go straight to the time, but if it doesn't, fast forward to 47m on the game clock and watch from there

 

[menace]

You seem to live in a world where wind does not exist.

And some would say you seem to live in a world where physics is ignored. :shrug:

 

[Ian_Cook]

And some would say you seem to live in a world where physics is ignored. :shrug: