[In-goal] Defender driven back into his own in-goal grounds the ball..

[tewdric]

Firstly I am just starting out on my refereeing journey so please excuse lots of stupid questions!

I understand that a tackled defender moving back ftom the field of play using their momentum can immediately touch down in-goal and get a 22 drop out, whereas if the defender carries the ball in to in-goal and touches down it is a 5m scrum to the attacking side.

My question is provoked by something I saw in a junior game at the weekend a defender received a pass from a team mate and was quickly wrapped up by an attacking player around the waist and forced back about 3m into in-goal, remaining on his feet. The defender the touched down. My immediate though was carried in - 5m scrum, however a 22 was awarded. What does the panel think?

 

[mcroker]

I agree with your immediate through - if the defender was forced into their own in-goal whilst carying the ball and then grounds/makes-dead.... scrum 5 (attack).

However the regulations governing the youth game are generally pretty incomplete (being a page or 2 vs. the full law book) and sometimes have some odd anomalies. Randomly checking the U12s age-grade-regulation, this specific scenario isn't actually covered - at which point I default to the full laws, and adapt as best I can ... I'd still award scrum 5 (attack).

 

[Dickie E]

I understand that a tackled defender moving back ftom the field of play using their momentum can immediately touch down in-goal and get a 22 drop out,

I don't understand what this means

 

[mcroker]

Ah - I skimmed that (a clear case of reading what you expected to see)...
I suspect it's a reference to

Law 8
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]2. A try is scored when an attacking player:
[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular] c. With the ball is tackled short of the goal line and the player’s momentum carries them in a continuous movement along the ground into the opponents’ in-goal, and the player is first to ground the ball.[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]
[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular] d. Is tackled near to the opponents’ goal line and the player immediately reaches out and grounds the ball.[/FONT]

 

[tewdric]

I was thinking of 21.7:

If a tackled player has momentum that carries them into their own in-goal area, they can make a touch down.

 

[mcroker]

Same law - different versions of the law-book

 

[Rich_NL]

They can make a touch down if driven back into their own in-goal. However, they've still brought the ball back in, so the correct restart is an attacking scrum 5, not a 22DO. This is also the case for a tackled player using their momentum to make a touch down.

 

[mcroker]

Same law - different versions of the law-book

SHAME! No it's not <embarrassed smiley>

 

[crossref]

Same law - different versions of the law-book

I don't think so

Look carefully, isn't 21.7 completely new in the 2018 Book ..And what does it actually mean ?

It does sort of imply a 22m DO is given

 

[mcroker]

I don't think so

I don't think so either (see above retraction) :S
Early shower for me...

 

[Rich_NL]

No more than 21.6 or 21.8: it just says touch down. Laws 12 and 19 cover the restart.

 

[tewdric]

Re-reading the law I think I misunderstood what touchdown means - I'd thought that meant the defender won a 22 but it doesnt actually say that - so the answer to my question looks like 5m scrum whether tackled in play close to the goal line and immediately toched down in-goal, or pushed back across on feet.

Im not totally clear though!

 

[crossref]

It's a new Law , introduced in 2018 , that means nothing at all ?

 

[didds]

Firstly I am just starting out on my refereeing journey so please excuse lots of stupid questions!

I understand that a tackled defender moving back ftom the field of play using their momentum can immediately touch down in-goal and get a 22 drop out, whereas if the defender carries the ball in to in-goal and touches down it is a 5m scrum to the attacking side.

My question is provoked by something I saw in a junior game at the weekend a defender received a pass from a team mate and was quickly wrapped up by an attacking player around the waist and forced back about 3m into in-goal, remaining on his feet. The defender the touched down. My immediate though was carried in - 5m scrum, however a 22 was awarded. What does the panel think?

Defender
In
DeaD
Scrum

DIDDS


you are welcome ;-)

Didds

 

[OB..]

19.1 tells you where a scrum should take place.
[LAWS]

Infringement / stoppage	Location of scrum	Who throws in
The ball is taken into in-goal by the defending team and made dead.	In the scrum zone at the point closest to where the ball was made dead.	The attacking team.

[/LAWS]
Law 21 says it is legal to make the touchdown and Law 9.1 says the result is an attacking 5m scrum.

 

[Rich_NL]

It's a new Law , introduced in 2018 , that means nothing at all ?

My guess is

- the corresponding law for scoring a try was introduced to clarify that it didn't count as playing on the ground,
- it got interpreted as an *exception* that favoured the attacking team
- a clarification that the defending team may also use momentum plus a movement to make a touch down was added.

It doesn't make a difference to how I'd ref the situation, though.

 

[crossref]

My guess is

- the corresponding law for scoring a try was introduced to clarify that it didn't count as playing on the ground,
- it got interpreted as an *exception* that favoured the attacking team
- a clarification that the defending team may also use momentum plus a movement to make a touch down was added.

It doesn't make a difference to how I'd ref the situation, though.

That makes sense

 

[Dickie E]

Re-reading the law I think I misunderstood what touchdown means - I'd thought that meant the defender won a 22 but it doesnt actually say that - so the answer to my question looks like 5m scrum whether tackled in play close to the goal line and immediately toched down in-goal, or pushed back across on feet.

Im not totally clear though!

If defending team put ball into in-goal (carry, pass, kick, knock, <insert verb of your choice>) then it is a 5 metre attacking scrum. Otherwise, 22 drop out.

 

[ChrisR]

The 2018 Laws really make a mess of this.

1. There is no definition of "touch down" outside of

[LAWS]21.6 A defending player grounding the ball in in-goal results in a touch down.[/LAWS]

2. Law 12 has this:

[LAWS]RESTART KICKS FOLLOWING A TOUCH-DOWN (22-METRE DROP-OUT)

11. Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an
attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre
drop-out.
[/LAWS]

3. Law 21 then goes on to say:

[LAWS]21.7. If a tackled player has momentum that carries them into their own in-goal area, they can
make a touch down.


21.8. A tackled player near their own goal line may reach out and ground the ball in in-goal to
make a touch down, provided it is done immediately. Sanction: Penalty.*


21.9. If a defending player grounds the ball against a goal post or its surrounding padding, the
result is a touch down.
[/LAWS]

* For not playing the ball immediately, I assume.

4. The table in Law 19 Scrum that indicates where and who feeds based on infraction has this (5th panels down):

What: The ball is taken into in-goal by the defending team and made dead.


Where: In the scrum zone at the point closest to where the ball was made dead.


Who:The attacking team.

So, we all know what the outcome will be of taking the ball into your own goal and grounding it. Right? Does World Rugby?

 

[mcroker]

So, we all know what the outcome will be of taking the ball into your own goal and grounding it. Right? Does World Rugby?

i believe the usual outcome is a penetance of s jug purchased after the gsme