Deliberate knock on

[Volun-selected]

One thing I find a little grey that I've seen in practice, but also gather from discussion here, is we're saying if the offender had a realistic chance to catch the ball then it's only a penalty no YC...but if they had a realistic chance to catch the ball and made an honest attempt, why isn't it just a regular knock on at that point? I've seen a few penalized where the offender had a realistic chance of catching the ball, but it just didn't happen, and the ref goes directly to penalty.

Not a PK for me if there was a reasonable chance they could catch the ball and they make an honest attempt to catch - that’s just an other knock-on and just a scrum.

PK or more only starts for intentional - so either no chance of catching the ball, or an obvious attempt to hit the ball away rather than catch.

In the original post from @Cross , if it was deliberate and went forward, but no chance of line break or probable try I would award a PK for intentional knock-on. The fact it was a poor pass is irrelevant.

 

[jdeagro]

Not a PK for me if there was a reasonable chance they could catch the ball and they make an honest attempt to catch - that’s just an other knock-on and just a scrum.

PK or more only starts for intentional - so either no chance of catching the ball, or an obvious attempt to hit the ball away rather than catch.

In the original post from @Cross , if it was deliberate and went forward, but no chance of line break or probable try I would award a PK for intentional knock-on. The fact it was a poor pass is irrelevant.

Glad I'm not crazy lol. This is one's a pet peeve for me. The exact lineout scenario I described is actually something we intentionally try on occasion to defend lineouts with on the team I play for, since many teams at our level love to tap ball off the top for some reason. Our gunner actually successfully picked one off the other day. It's refreshingly good play to see it done successfully.

 

[Phil E]

Our gunner actually successfully picked one off the other day. It's refreshingly good play to see it done successfully.

Are we still talking about rugby? I have no idea what those words mean

 

[jdeagro]

Are we still talking about rugby? I have no idea what those words mean

Well fair enough as an American I had to go and mention guns at any opportunity.

Heh, by gunner, I meant the last man of the non-throwing team in a lineout whose purpose is to charge forward and get in the receiver's way from distributing the ball, after the ball has left the lineout.

 

[crossref]

Well fair enough as an American I had to go and mention guns at any opportunity.

Heh, by gunner, I meant the last man of the non-throwing team in a lineout whose purpose is to charge forward and get in the receiver's way from distributing the ball, after the ball has left the lineout.

I often wonder why the defending team don't position their receiver right on the 15m line, poised to rush the opp 10.
didds will probably explain why that's not coached more

 

[Decorily]

....... charge forward and get in the receiver's way from distributing the ball, after the ball has left the lineout.

Or even before the ball has left!!

 

[didds]

Well fair enough as an American I had to go and mention guns at any opportunity.

Heh, by gunner, I meant the last man of the non-throwing team in a lineout whose purpose is to charge forward and get in the receiver's way from distributing the ball, after the ball has left the lineout.

"over here" I think its normally referred to as a tail gunner, but FWIW I got what you meant.

 

[jdeagro]

Or even before the ball has left!!

Surely not legally though.

 

[didds]

I often wonder why the defending team don't position their receiver right on the 15m line, poised to rush the opp 10.
didds will probably explain why that's not coached more

TBH I agree with you - generally speaking.
though if your eg #7 is the tail gunner on the 15m line then they'll have 2m on that receiver at 15m anyway, so the receiver isnt as important in that scenario. Certaoinly with a shortened lineout which isnt extended to 15m, or whetre the last palyer may well be drawn forwards its an option.
The player defending in the channel though may need to be aware of any possible scruym half duties if the ball is caught and needs top be played away.

 

[chbg]

Back to the OP - there's a bit of a feed from 7s, where invariably an attempt to intercept potentially gains a high reward (unchallenged run-in for a Try), and is therefore turned into a commensurately high risk act (YC).

 

[Cross]

Nigel's take on last weekend's incidents in case anyone's curious.

 

[Stu10]

So OF was lucky yesterday not to get carded for his deliberate knock-on vs Fiji?

It seemed arguably cynical, and definitely prevented a line break.

In the original post from @Cross , if it was deliberate and went forward, but no chance of line break or probable try I would award a PK for intentional knock-on. The fact it was a poor pass is irrelevant.

The fact it was a poor pass may be irrelevant when considering penalty for deliberate knock-on, but I think it is relevant when considering to show a YC... In the England v Fiji game, the pass was not going to reach the intended receiver and probably would have been behind him... the line break was never going to happen even if OF had not hit the ball, therefore a YC would have been very harsh IMHO.