Deliberate not knock on....?

[Donal1988]

I've seen this before and don't know it's called moment of genius. It should be called moment of throwing ball forward to yourself.

Dont quite think that the throw itself is illegal. I certainly dont think it is thrown forward. But I would disallow it on grounds of obstruction.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I don't believe he threw the ball anywhere near forward, but yes, the obstruction by 11 blue is the issue for me

 

[Davet]

Dickie E

Andrew Cole - who was in vanguard of the momentum movement (pun not intended).

For the avoidance of doubt, I repeat what I've said oodles of times before.
I don't really want the Law clarifying, I prefer the refere to make a snap judgement based on what he sees and perceives as forward or not at the time. - Space for some human judgement.

 

[OB..]

who?

Davet is trying to pretend that an official video by the ARU is merely the opinion of one particular Australian referee, Andrew Cole.

 

[Dickie E]

I can't remember the pros & cons of the momentum vs. static argument . Can someone summarise in 100 posts or less please? :norc:

Is Chopper a member of this lounge? :Nerv: :Nerv: :Nerv:

(MSF)

 

[Ian_Cook]

(MSF)

 

[Dickie E]

Mandatory Space Filler

I stuffed up my original post then stuffed it up more when I tried to fix it.

Ian, why are you still up? Hanging in there for the S14 finals?

 

[Casey Bee]

I don't believe he threw the ball anywhere near forward, but yes, the obstruction by 11 blue is the issue for me

Why??

 

[chopper15]

Why??

Agree, Kevin. But to avoid the obstruction charge I'll change my mischeivous original query to read;

'So if the ball-carrier running at his opposite number accidently knocks him to the ground and simultaneously tosses the ball vertically in the air for his team mate behind to run on to and catch, is that a deliberate forward pass'?

And by the way it was all agreed - just in case you all forgot - that the ball's direction of travel is relative to the ball-carrier not the ground . . . 'latent kinetics' and all that.:hap:

Just threw that in for the benefit of the still confused sceptics.:clap:

 

[chopper15]

If a ball-carrier running at his opposite number accidently knocks him to the ground and without stopping simultaneously tosses the ball vertically in the air for his team mate behind to run on to and catch, is that a deliberate forward pass?

 

[Dickie E]

If a ball-carrier running at his opposite number accidently knocks him to the ground and without stopping simultaneously tosses the ball vertically in the air for his team mate behind to run on to and catch, is that a deliberate forward pass?

No (MSF)

 

[chopper15]

No (MSF)

Agree.

You wouldn't happen to have any opinions on my FK scrum option query?



http://www.rugbyrefs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10047&page=5

 

[Davet]

And by the way it was all agreed - just in case you all forgot - that the ball's direction of travel is relative to the ball-carrier not the ground . . . 'latent kinetics' and all that

Not by me.

The only relevant direction of travel is in relation to opponents dead ball line.

 

[chopper15]

Not by me.

The only relevant direction of travel is in relation to opponents dead ball line.

So any ball-carrier moving towards his opponent's line who passes the ball laterally to his team mate - ie., not relative to the the ground - you blow up for a forward pass?

Or are you winding us up with this old chestnut you rascal, Davet?:clap:

 

[Davet]

Chopper - moi? - quelle horreur!

The serious answer is - it depends...

If I think it went forward - ie travelled discernably forwards ie towards the opposition DBL, then I would blow up.

That might vary if it was apparent to me that the ball was thrown behind the passer and only went forward due to momentum and distance travelled.

That might also vary on my line of travel, I might see it as flat or backwards because I am travelling at considerable pace (perhaps in the old days, anyway) in line with it.

But in the end I would make an instant judgement, based on a multitude of small clues. I don't want to get to too prescriptive position that simply confuses everybody.

99% of the time 99% of players and spectators and refs recocognise what is and isn't forward. And on the odd occasion where there is a difference of opinion we have all the fun of analysing it in repeat slow motion from multiple angles - not a luxury I ever enjoyed on the pitch.

So my view is actually - it's forward if I say it's forward, and if you disagree that's your privilege - but we will still have a scrum here, their put-in - so tough titty.

 

[chopper15]

Yes, Davet, I do agree with you. :clap:

In my two specific scenarios, when a ball-carrier is moving towards the opponent's line - both would be unintentional forward passes relative to the FoP, as previous threads supported by slo-mo video and diagram plainly illustrated.

But as most refs judge it relative to the ball-carrier they wouldn't be.:hap: