Deliberate not knock on....?

Greg Collins


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An exagerrated, hypothetical, version of something I saw in one of the games I watched over the weekend.


Black vs White.

Black attacking deep in White's 22m. Injury time in knockout final. White behind by 6 points.

Black inside centre attempts a miss pass to his winger, White outside centre reads it and stretches out his outside arm and swats/bats/otherwise knocks the ball hard away from his goal line, making no apparent attempt to catch it, using a motion that most days you would interpret as liable to result in a PK for deliberate knock-on.

But he propels the ball upwards and it sail ups and away over/past the attacking Black 3/4 line.

OK now bear with me, a three scenario situation. How would you ref these....

a) Ball hits deck or black lock who was following up.

b) White outside centre realises the ball is in the air, a plan forms in his mind, he steps past his opposite number cleanly catches the ball he propelled towards the Black goal line, and runs past the arriving lock from scenario a) sprinting 90m to score the winning try of the game under the posts.

c) White winger, onside, realises the ball is up in the air, steps past and inside his opposite number, cleanly catches the ball his outside centre propelled by hand towards the Black goal line, runs past the arriving lock from a) and sprints 90m to score the winning try of the game under the posts.
 

didds

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a) PK (advantage played first)
b) PK (deliberately knock ball over approaching player)
c) PK

so its PKs all round, black win and we all adjourn to the bar!

didds
 

OB..


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Law 12.1 (e) A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm, nor throw forward.

Note that this is not a deliberate "knock-on" and therefore the criteria about touching the ground or another player do not apply.
 

Dickie E


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a) Paul Marks & I would also consider a PT and YC
 

OB..


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a) Paul Marks & I would also consider a PT and YC

I rejected PT on the grounds that the pass was intended for the winger but was intercepted by the outside centre. Take out the centre and that presumably left the winger covered by his opposite number.

A YC is a possibility, depending on the actual circumstances.
 

Phil E


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So what's the difference between juggled forward and caught; and knocked forward and caught?

How do you tell the difference?

Is it just a know it when you see it thing?
 

DrSTU


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one looks like a volley ball serve, the other like juggling (my definition)
 

Phil E


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one looks like a volley ball serve, the other like juggling (my definition)

PEEP! 15, 4, your serve Coco. :biggrin:
 

OB..


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So what's the difference between juggled forward and caught; and knocked forward and caught?

How do you tell the difference?

Is it just a know it when you see it thing?

There isn't a difference.

There is a difference is between accidentally propelling the ball forward and intentionally doing so. The former is a potential knock-on, the latter is a penalty offence.
 

chopper15

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So if the ball-carrier running at his opposite number tosses the ball vertically in the air for his team mate behind to run on to and catch, is that a deliberate forward pass?
 

Davet

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sniff, sniff, nibble....
spit.

It's too late and we all know the answers... OB and Aussie Dentist are simply wrong and won't admit it...:p :biggrin:
 

SimonSmith


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I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or hover over the "lock thread" button :)
 
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