Dilemma

[Simon Thomas]

As far as I am concerned SCW was a CEO with £10m budget to deliver a simple goal - a test series win in New Zealand.

He had ample preparation time, his pick of support personnel, his chosen COO (Robinson - who should have been in Canada with England), and specialist managers in all areas (many of whom he had previous working relationships with).

His raw materials were adequate but he was unable to deliver the finished product. Some selections were bizzare in the extreme and his man management appears to be somewhat erratic.

Personally I feel cheated and badly let down - but unlike a company where the board of directors would have to answer to their shareholders, SCW will now move off to soccer with Southampton FC.

 

[SimonSmith]

Bravo, ST.

 

[OB..]

What can't be argued with is the fact that SCW's picks seem to have been arbitrary, and his reasoning has been illogical and inconsistently applied.

Since we have not been privy to his selection meetings, and have not had much more than a few off-the-cuff comments on the reasons for various selections, that comment strikes me as ill-founded. I most certainly do argue with it.

As far as I am concerned SCW was a CEO with £10m budget to deliver a simple goal - a test series win in New Zealand.

So you are seriously saying that he OUGHT to have won the series?

His raw materials were adequate

Not in my eyes they weren't.

there has been massive underdelivery at game time. That's his responsibility.

Take today:
O'Callaghan's failure to pass to the unmarked men outside him.
The Lions failing to react in time to defend a quick tap penalty.
Ryan Jones arguing with the referee and converting a long penalty into a kickable one.
Stephen Jones missing a tackle on McAlister for Umaga's first try.

These were blunders by the players. Surely nobody believes they were coached to do that?

As Woodward himself said, he is in charge so the buck stops with him, but this determination to blame him and him alone for the failure is wildly overdone.

 

[OB..]

Alred - kicking is a reflex that is drilled into you by hours of practice - no doubt Alred is a world class kicking coach, but like SCW he needs a long time because his methods involve changing the foundations - which inevitably cause the rest to crumble, admittidly (over time) to be re-built with a stronger structure.

Not on tour. I think his job is to oversee kicking practice, make minor adjustments if necessary, and help the kickers retain their confidence. His presence makes sure their specialist needs are not overlooked in the general mayhem.

 

[didds]

hear hear OB.

The skill levels of most of thiose elite, professional players are appalling - 2 years agi they were better players. Some of the errors made I would be gutted at with the LEVEL 8 players I coach., How can a professional not understanbd that to take a pop pass frm a ruck after slow ball you MUST be running FORWARDS at PACE? I spent 20 mins woith an excercise to underpin that last wednesday with a county 1st division side!

didds

 

[SimonSmith]

As Woodward himself said, he is in charge so the buck stops with him, but this determination to blame him and him alone for the failure is wildly overdone.

I'm not aware that I was blaming him alone, but I am placing the bulk of the blame on his shoulders.

I don't think my comments are ill founded. I'm basing them on the words coming out of Woodward's own mouth. If we can't take it direct from the horse's mouth , so to speak, then who can we take it from? If he had a coherent reason for his selections, then he had ample opportunity to espouse it. So far, a lack of coherency.

These were blunders by the players. Surely nobody believes they were coached to do that? - nope. But the mark of good coaching is that the players DON'T do that. I can remember the '97 Lions, backs against the wall, not giving up any penalties. You could hear the organization and the leadership and determination - all of which has been largely absent.
Is that the players' fault? Yes, largely. But I believe that the environment hasn't been created to allow the players to flourish.

I still go back to my original premise: SCW proved his worth over time, with endless tweaking and altering. He did not have any kind of track record that meant he was an outstanding Lions candidate. And before anyone calls "bandwagon/hindsight", I said this before the tour....

 

[Davet]

The performance of many of the players was less than wonderful.

I think, however, that even so there were some managerial decisions, which in restrospect look like poor ones - and yes hindsight is fine tool. When the plans were drawn up regarding the size of the party then I, like many felt that the arguements in favour of 45 players were worth a go. That plan has now been tried, and has shown itself flawed. The players did not get nearly enough game time together. The potential flexibility was fine, but it meant that there were simply too many options available, and players did not get chance to build together.

In addition Woodward did seem to pick on reputation, class, not form. He said himself that this was not a development tour, not a tour to build a team that would go well over the next few seasons. The saying about class being permanent and form only temporary is very true, but in the circumstances of a Lions tour then form is more important. I'm sure the class of many of those who underperformed will make itself clear in the long term, but Lions tours are short term.

Finally there seemed, from a distance, to be no real leader on the pitch. Nobody who had the authority and personal respect to rally people round and point them in the rirection. Thomas seemed to be growing into the role of captain, but was not quite there. O'Driscoll, even before his injury, was not filling the role. Dallaglio was sorely missed, not merely as a player, but as a leader on the park.

 

[threegatesexpress]

As far as I am concerned SCW was a CEO with £10m budget to deliver a simple goal - a test series win in New Zealand.

I doubt that a budget of £30m could have produced a team to beat this All Blacks side. I just can't wait for the Tri-Nations; that will emphasise the brilliance of this generation of All Blacks.

 

[OB..]

I particularly agree about leadership on the pitch. I never felt comfortable with O'Driscoll. He was undoubtedly well respected, but that is not enough. If Dallaglio had been there, he would have taken charge of matters like failing scrums and lineouts.

Mind you, I still doubt if we could have won!

 

[didds]

And before anyone calls "bandwagon/hindsight", I said this before the tour....

that at least makes two of us then Simon

didds