Dylan Hartley

[Adam]

3 week ban so the headlines are saying........

That's Hartley anything...

 

[Pegleg]

Northampton Saints' Dylan Hartley has been suspended for three weeks for elbowing Leicester's Matt Smith.
England hooker Hartley caught Tigers centre Smith off the ball on Saturday.

The 28-year-old pleaded guilty.

It is the fifth time Hartley has been banned and Jeremy Summers, sitting as a sole judicial officer, said that was reflected in the punishment.

Hartley will miss three games for Northampton, all in the Premiership - at Harlequins on 27 December, at home to Newcastle on 2 January and at Sale Sharks on 10 January.
Summers said: "The sanction reflects the low end entry point of the offence, which carries a two-week tariff.
"The entry point was aggravated having regard to Dylan's previous record and a week was taken off to reflect mitigating circumstances.
"As such the sanction reflects the player's record rather than the seriousness of the offence itself." Source BBC


You could not make this stuff up. What a total JOKE.

 

[The umpire]

[cynic]Ah, but it gets him back in time for the 6N[\cynic]

 

[Pegleg]

[cynic]Ah, but it gets him back in time for the 6N[\cynic]

All credibility flies out of the window. How can we trust the authorities to back refs up when this sort of tosh is the outcome of hearings.

 

[KML1]

It was an unsighted reaction to being held. Feels about right to me

 

[Dave Sherwin]

It was an unsighted reaction to being held. Feels about right to me

Agreed.

 

[JJ10]

Not sure about unsighted. I reckon on the replay you can see him looking over his shoulder and spotting Smith. Doesn't mean he meant to hit the face, but he certainly knew he was there!

 

[Pegleg]

You don't swing an elbow whether you can see the guy or not. Hartly's a thug. England does not need him, the game does not need him.

 

[FlipFlop]

So the act is worth 2 weeks (LE). His previous record causes it to double to 4 weeks. The fact he was held (mitigating circumstances?) reduces it by a week. Not having read the judgement, I don't actually understand the mitigating circumstances, but then we are only arguing over a week, and 3 or 4 weeks isn't so different.

Maybe I'm wrong - but I thought I read somewhere that you can't add or subtract from an entry point to the extent you go past the next Entry point. So you can't increase a LE past the MR point (or mitigate an MR below the LE). In this case the MR is 5 weeks. So they added all they could. In any event this again seems right.

I can't see any issues with the process. Perhaps it should be a mid level entry, but think that is a bit harsh.

I have more of an issue that striking with the elbow has lower tariffs than striking with the knee....

 

[Pegleg]

The point is, for me, that the whole process is flawed. The IRB and now WR have to sent a clear message that violent acts will nor be tolerated. This suspension does not send that message.

The fact that the ban ends just in time for a major tournament that the player's country is involved in smells. Rugby followers see the hypocrisy. The Ruling elite either do not see it or do not care.

Rugby's credibility has been dealt a further blow.

 

[Browner]

You don't swing an elbow whether you can see the guy or not. Hartly's a thug. England does not need him, the game does not need him.

Take off those anti english specs pegleg, If you removed all the "skin throwers" from the game then I would've had no opposition to tussle with whenever we headed over the border to play our Celtic cousins

DH has missed a trick here......
I see no evidence that he attempted a 'Horwill-esk' innocence protestation, say.......

"I saw a wasp on MS head and was trying to swat it off" , or
"I was about to be unbalanced and threw my arm backwards trying to regain it, not seeing MS there" .. or even

" cmon, MS was clearly was shaping up to head butt me, I merely anticipated this assault and took a honest but firm preventative action " :shrug:


I agree with KML1.

 

[Pegleg]

For God's sake why do you have to bring nationalities into it?


Hartley is a thug (note I'm not saying that the English are thugs.). He's been cleared to play just in time for his (adopted) country's major annual tournament (as has hapened with other nationalities before!). That stinks as much now as it has in the past when other countries have played the same con.

As I pointed out "England does not need him, the game does not need him." England would be better served by having a player who can keep his discipline and not this idiot.

So please keep the Nationalistic claptrap out of it Browner.

 

[FlipFlop]

Pegleg - do you think this is Low, Mid or High level entry for "striking with an elbow"?

I think it is low. The discipline committee seem to agree, and the fact that the ref and TMO had to discuss if Red or Yellow, also would point towards a lower end. That is a 2 week entry level.

You cannot increase a sanction by a huge amount - that is not a transparent process. Due to past actions they have doubled his sanction - that is fairly harsh.

You can argue about the 1 week reduction - not read the reason behind that.

So 4 weeks, or 3? Not much different. All done without reference to when England next play.

I don't think it is the disciplinary committee at fault. Personally I think the striking with elbow should align more with the striking with knee. And that the LE is too low.

But that is a different issue.

 

[Pegleg]

I think that the whole system is flawed (and have argued that point throughpout this discussion). 4 weeks for LE for that offence is wrong. Before we even discuss whether its is L M or H. Furthermore the idea that a track record like Hartleys warrent only 1 extra week is laughable. Aerial thugs need to be weeded out of our game. How many chances is he going to get?

Hartley's Rap sheet:
In April 2007, Hartley was banned for 26 weeks for gouging Wasps forwards James Haskell and Jonny O'Connor.

He was suspended for eight weeks in March 2012 for biting Ireland's Stephen Ferris while playing for England in the Six Nations.
And he was banned for two weeks later that year for striking Ulster's Rory Best.
Verbal abuse of a Premiership match official in 2013 earned him an 11-week ban, costing him a place on the British and Irish Lions tour of Australia.

 

[Browner]

For God's sake why do you have to bring nationalities into it?


Hartley is a thug (note I'm not saying that the English are thugs.). He's been cleared to play just in time for his (adopted) country's major annual tournament (as has hapened with other nationalities before!). That stinks as much now as it has in the past when other countries have played the same con.

As I pointed out "England does not need him, the game does not need him." England would be better served by having a player who can keep his discipline and not this idiot.

So please keep the Nationalistic claptrap out of it Browner.

Twas only a humour pegleg, i think you mentioned England 1stly ( didn't you?) , chill matey, loved having a 'overly physical' battle with the taffs, confine it to verbal nudging nowadays and will happily receive any wit in return.

Casting Hartley as uniquely abrasive to a level that needs him removed from the england side clearly isn't nationalistic claptrap either :sarc: in fact the suggestion offends me so much so that I'm going to complain to Josh Lewsey :biggrin: If this offends your sensitivity barometer , then ah well ...I didn't have you down on such a low setting, so in that I've errored.

PS..Hartley isn't a "Thug" merely because you repeatedly suggest it, its merely your opinion, nothing more.

 

[Pegleg]

Th OP mentioned England as did several others before me. The value of Hartley and in thuggish ways to England's cause was raised by, dare I say it English posters. Another English poster reference the "cynic's view" that the ban was "convinient" in length. So please Brower if you are going to chuck mud, whether in a flawed attempt at humour or otherwise, try reading the posts in the thread first.


My opinion on Hartleys status as a thug is based upon his disciplinary record. Simple as that.

 

[Browner]

Th OP mentioned England as did several others before me. The value of Hartley and in thuggish ways to England's cause was raised by, dare I say it English posters. Another English poster reference the "cynic's view" that the ban was "convinient" in length. So please Brower if you are going to chuck mud, whether in a flawed attempt at humour or otherwise, try reading the posts in the thread first.


My opinion on Hartleys status as a thug is based upon his disciplinary record. Simple as that.

If that's your only criteria, then my memory says that in every match I ever played in involving a welsh opponent team there was some 'thuggish' ( to reflect your description only) rugby behaviour, so by that mathematic extrapolation every welsh player of that era must be a thug irrespective of my or my teammates deliberate provocations and im justified in spouting my mathematical conclusions to anyone I like , irrespective of his bias or otherwise .....

No of course, I'm not serious, its tongue in cheek also.

DH may be a potential liability ( debatable) for England in RWC, but he has no form in being sent off for the nation he represents, in the same way that Sam Warburton has no form in being sent off for his club :shrug:


In fact England's WC record for red card avoidance is impressive especially when you consider how often they've gone deep !

2003 was obviously the best Tournament ever !

1Huw RichardsLock

Wales6–49New Zealand1987 (semi-final)77'14 June 1987[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][17]
[/SUP]2David CodeyFlanker

Australia21–22Wales1987(bronze final)5'18 June 1987[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][18]
[/SUP]3Pedro SporlederLock

Argentina12–35Samoa1991 ?'13 October 1991[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][19]
[/SUP]4Matt KeenanLock

Samoa35–12Argentina1991 ?'13 October 1991[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][19]
[/SUP]5Feleti MahoniFlanker

Tonga10–38France199568'26 May 1995[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][20]
[/SUP]6Gareth ReesFly-half(captain)

Canada0–20South Africa199570'3 June 1995[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][21]
[/SUP]7Rod SnowProp

Canada0–20South Africa199570'3 June 1995[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][21]
[/SUP]8James DaltonHooker

South Africa20–0Canada199570'3 June 1995[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][21]
[/SUP]9Marika VunibakaWing

Fiji38–22Canada199980'+9 October 1999[SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][22]
[/SUP]10Dan BaughFlanker

Canada72–11Namibia199948'14 October 1999[SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][23]
[/SUP]11Ngalu Taufo'ouProp

Tonga10–101England199935'15 October 1999[SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][24]
[/SUP]12Brendan VenterCentre

South Africa39–3Uruguay199940'15 October 1999[SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][25]
[/SUP]13Hale T-PoleFlanker

Tonga19–15Samoa200771'16 September 2007[SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][26]
[/SUP]14Jacques NieuwenhuisNumber 8

Namibia10–87France200719'16 September 2007[SUP][12][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][27]
[/SUP]15Paul WilliamsFullback

Samoa5–13South Africa201170'30 September 2011[SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][28]
[/SUP]16Sam WarburtonFlanker(captain)

Wales8–9France2011 (semi-final)17'15 October 2011[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP]

Crikey, now I've studied this, I'm off to Paddy Power to wager a bet on a RC for a welsh forward in the 2015 RWC SF, as the form looks good despite the odds being long.
:eng:

(PS....... if DH does get RC'd it will be NZ's 1st :biggrin

 

[Pegleg]

Oh Browner 50 weeks worth of bans = one cocked up tackle by Sam. That's an incredible use of statistics.

I'll defend you against some of the dafter admin on here. but I'll leave you on your own here. not sure what sort of "humour" you are going for but slapstick satirical nonsence i the closed I can fit it to.

Tell you what, let's here your real opinion rather than your "attempt" at "humour".

 

[Browner]

Receiving banter and taking offence are clearly personal barometers.
Sorry that you've taken it in the way you describe.

:shrug:

I will now troll through every single post you've ever made (or merely liked) , searching for any implied nationalistic claptrap in order to get my knickers in a twist over.
On second thoughts , nah ....can't be h'arsed. .

 

[SimonSmith]

Pack it in. One more post not directly relating to Hartley and the thread gets locked.