ELV's in Age Grade Ruby - WALES

[scarletman]

In preparation for the new season, our coaches have started gearing up for the introduction of ELV's.

Here in Wales, I am not convinced that we will adopt the trials at U16's & below.

Can anyone confirm please.

 

[Simon Thomas]

The 13 ELVs are to be globally adopted on August 1st 2008.

Some unions may decide to opt out of some (e.g. RFU for U19s and below no dropping maul) for a variety of reasons, which then needs a Home Union Council decision and also IRB Council approval. These Councils meet 6 or 7 times a year !

Only the Welsh RFU, or someone with good comunications to them, can know what they intend or applying to do, and even then it is subject to IRB Council approval as well (sometimes retrospective !)

 

[Account Deleted]

No communication so far from the WRU as to the implementation.

Interesting that opt out "...is subject to IRB Council approval as well (sometimes retrospective !)" when the Continuum ignoring of the IRB directives on CTPE at Age Group level was seen not to require IRB approval by many on this board.

 

[Simon Thomas]

I was referring to Youth Rugby (U13 and U19) only. At U16 and older (and even younger now) there are international matches on a formal basis, so consistent Laws and Officiating are crucial. Ha ha - look at mess we have with ELV variants already currently at adult internationals in SH and NH !

'Continuum' age levels are a totally different issue (and not ones I have ever been activly involved in - in fact our Society Referees rarely go below U15 matches).

I believe Home Unions have a lot more unilateral choice as to how they develop and promote the Game at those ages and don't need IRB Council aproval, but someone like PaulDG is likely to know a lot more than I.

 

[Account Deleted]

Thanks Simon. We are told to apply rulings like the CTPE strictly.

 

[PaulDG]

Thanks Simon. We are told to apply rulings like the CTPE strictly.

Prior to the global introduction of CTPE, the English Continuum had it's own version which had the props not releasing after the touch. The RFU decided that the sudden introduction of what is a fairly irrelevant change (it is so bad that 10 year olds keep the touch? The need for the release at adult level is because of 1) impact on the shoulder and 2) the probability that props would abuse keeping hold of their opponent to hold him back or twist him away - neither of those are (or at least should not be) relevant at U10-U12) would cause more problems than it solved.

And bear in mind we have contested scrums from U10. Not something that happens in Wales until U15 (or U14), I think?

 

[scarletman]

Thanks for your replies.

Today (16th July) I have managed to confirm with the WRU, the following.

For the season 2008/2009, the following ELV's will be implemented for ALL Rugby both Senior & Junior Age Grade.

Experimental Law Variations Summary

Match Officials

1 - Assistant referees are able to assist the referee in any way that the referee requires. (probably does not apply to Mini & Junior rugby except for cup games with touch judges appointed)

Maul
2 - Remove reference to head and shoulders not being lower than hips.
3 - Players are able to defend a maul by pulling it down.

Touch and Lineout
4 - If a team puts the ball back into its own 22 and the ball is subsequently kicked directly into touch there is no gain in ground.
5 - A quick throw in may be thrown in straight or towards the throwing team's own goal line.
6 - There is no restriction on the number of players from either team who can participate in the lineout.
7 - The receiver at the lineout must be two metres away from the lineout.
8 - The player who is in opposition to the player throwing in the ball must stand in the area between the 5-metre line and the touch line but must be two metres away from the 5-metre line.
9 - Lineout players may pre-grip a jumper before the ball is thrown in.
10 -The lifting of lineout players is permitted.

Scrum
11 - Introduction of an offside line five metres behind the hindmost feet of the scrum.
12 - Identification of scrum half offside lines.

Corner Posts
13 - The corner posts are no longer considered to be touch in goal except when the ball is grounded against the post.

The WRU have opted not to implement Penalty/Free Kick ELV's.

 

[scarletman]

Prior to the global introduction of CTPE, the English Continuum had it's own version which had the props not releasing after the touch. The RFU decided that the sudden introduction of what is a fairly irrelevant change (it is so bad that 10 year olds keep the touch? The need for the release at adult level is because of 1) impact on the shoulder and 2) the probability that props would abuse keeping hold of their opponent to hold him back or twist him away - neither of those are (or at least should not be) relevant at U10-U12) would cause more problems than it solved.

And bear in mind we have contested scrums from U10. Not something that happens in Wales until U15 (or U14), I think?

We have "semi-contested" scrums..... i.e. Both Hookers to Strike, but NO pushing from U12.

IRB U19 laws apply from U14.

 

[Dixie]

Astonishing that the full 13 are to be applied to children. So it's safe to pull down a maul so that 15 players fall on top of someone, but not safe to push in a scrum.

The WRU have opted not to implement Penalty/Free Kick ELV's.

Did the WRU actually have an option to implement the sanctions ELV?

 

[PaulDG]

....Did the WRU actually have an option to implement the sanctions ELV?

From what it seems other unions are doing all over the world, it looks to me as if you can implement any ELVs you want (many that have never been made public such as the New Zealand "FK when scrums go uncontested") as long as you implement at least the base 13.

Someone, somewhere is very, very keen on change. Lots and lots of change.

 

[Account Deleted]

Thanks for the update Scarletman. Nothing from my district yet.

 

[Account Deleted]

We were told last night that the WRU is considering the pulling down of the maul option at U19 and below. It may not include it in the pathway etc.

 

[Dixie]

Nothing like leaving it late! What does the WRU expect its clubs to be coaching at the moment for U.19's? A "wait & see" policy?

 

[cymrubach]

ATTR,

What meeting did you go to last night, who was the instructor? I was supposed to go to Taibach but couldn't make it as I was giving a presentation on the ELV's at a local club, I'm interested to know who mentioned that the pulling down of the mauls are still under consideration in Wales as this was not the answer I got when I asked about it........

Most clubs have already started to play friendlies in the lead up to then new season, if there is to be a change we need to know now.

 

[Mat 04]

ATTR,

i'm interested to know who mentioned that the pulling down of the mauls are still under consideration in Wales as this was not the answer I got when I asked about it........

That would be Rob Yeman.

 

[Dixie]

That would be Rob Yeman.

Match officials manager, former Elite referee and several years of seniority at the top of the WRU referee management tree. That seems a pretty authoritative source!

 

[cymrubach]

That would be Rob Yeman.

Mat, were you at the Taibach meeting, if so who gave the presentation?

 

[Mat 04]

Yep, First half was James, second half was Owens, with Rob adding bits and pieces every so often.

 

[cymrubach]

Yep, First half was James, second half was Owens, with Rob adding bits and pieces every so often.

So did he say that the pulling down of the maul law in age grade rugby was not to be applied or that the WRU was still thinking about it?

 

[Mat 04]

He said ATM that the law was to be applied in full to all ages, he did say that the "pathways" were going to be updated too soon. The reason that the WRU wants the 'maul drop' in is so that our representative sides are not disadvantaged in internationals against unions that allow it. They were also concerned about 17/18year olds playing moving into premiership teams having no experience of it.

So to be clear, we are allowing the maul drop in Wales (atleast until further notice).