England vs Ireland Stamp

[Davet]

Or is this a cunning plan....

He is due to return 10th March, because the start of the ban was deferred - since he wasn't expected to play this week.

Leinster decide to play him in that deferment period.

It is pointed out to them that he should not be available - they say oh well in that case why not strat the ban straight away, which would of course mean he is able to play 3rd March, since it would be unfair to actually increase his ban...

So he would be available against France on the 9th...

You read it here first.

 

[Account Deleted]

Several stamps on the ankles and lower leg with the player looking straight at the target? How then would you chaps describe high end?.

On a related point. How was De Luca's tip worse than the Moriarty incident?

Top end rugby is losing / has lost its way.

 

[Toby Warren]

Several stamps on the ankles and lower leg with the player looking straight at the target? How then would you chaps describe high end?.

On a related point. How was De Luca's tip worse than the Moriarty incident?

Top end rugby is losing / has lost its way.

A stamp to the head, a stamp with a 'twist' a trapped leg stamped etc etc. No one is saying that it wasn't bad and worthy of red, we are just saying it could have been worse.

Don't confuse that with condoning the action

 

[Simon Thomas]

Several stamps on the ankles and lower leg with the player looking straight at the target? How then would you chaps describe high end?.

On a related point. How was De Luca's tip worse than the Moriarty incident?

Top end rugby is losing / has lost its way.

High end - a stamp to the head, to the neck, to the face; a stamp with a knee raised to 90 degrees; a landing stamp from a jump; a stamp and twisting movement.

In my view any deliberate stamp is a red card. Referees job, or if he misses it a citing (at elite by appointed officer, lower down by team or even match observer sometimes).

How that is then viewed by the Disciplinary Committee as high-mid-low is based on the evidence (written and ofetn video too) presented after a dismissal (or citing that meets the red card test). It is nothing to do with the referee.

I am 100% against any stamping, and never did it as a player (rucking to body yes, but never a stamp) but was on the receiving end a few times in the West Country and the Valleys.

 

[Account Deleted]

Stamp on the ankles / knee /elbow or wrist ticks the box for me, and that is what Healy chose to do. I believe having heard the opinions of many rugby people suggests that Healy's act was wrongly classified. Agreed nothing to do with the ref, though how the thuggery was missed is amazing.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

So for those of you who don't think this deliberate act was high end, would it have been high end if cole had sufferred a carreer ending break?

 

[Simon Thomas]

So for those of you who don't think this deliberate act was high end, would it have been high end if cole had sufferred a carreer ending break?

He didn't suffer any break at all and cacried on playing = mid range as it was a mid range stamp. If it had been from a greater height and with more force, it would have moved towards high end (and more chance of a serious injury).

 

[Simon Thomas]

Stamp on the ankles / knee /elbow or wrist ticks the box for me, and that is what Healy chose to do. I believe having heard the opinions of many rugby people suggests that Healy's act was wrongly classified. Agreed nothing to do with the ref, though how the thuggery was missed is amazing.

I agree with amazement that the stamp was missed by Team of Three, but IRB/6Nations/RFU etc recognised that and hence Citing was brought in (by ex-International Referee Jonny Johnstone of RFU), and even more recently TMO powers.

But it seems that those who set Disciplinary levels have a different definition of Mid and High end offences to yourself, and of course you are entitled to your personal opinion whihc it appears others agree with you. The definitions used are discussed in detail with examples at the Disiplinary Training Courses held by the IRB, RFI, WRU, SRU etc.

 

[BikingBud]

All this discussion about the failure of the system, it's the same with all justice when the toerag thief from down the road get his holiday in the sun. But on the other side of the pitch later there appeared to be another red card offence when he again "attacked" a player in the bottom of a ruck, don't have access here but I think it was Cole again, that got clearly punched at least twice.

AR was right there and also the citing panel would have had full view as it was plain as day on TV; or am I imagining things?

 

[Mike Whittaker]

All this discussion about the failure of the system, it's the same with all justice when the toerag thief from down the road get his holiday in the sun. But on the other side of the pitch later there appeared to be another red card offence when he again "attacked" a player in the bottom of a ruck, don't have access here but I think it was Cole again, that got clearly punched at least twice.

AR was right there and also the citing panel would have had full view as it was plain as day on TV; or am I imagining things?

Not quite sure what the holiday practices of toerag thieves has to do with anything but as someone who has spent many years both with a whistle and observing those with a whistle I am of the firm belief that not only have I missed seeing things (very occassionally!!) but may well also have imagined some things!

Thanks to slow mo replays at the top level enabling all 'experts' to castigate officials retro actively bar room debate has moved to a new dimension. Even more thanks to the fact that such technology is not there at the grass roots level and we can continue to have a game played and officiated by mere mortals - and genuine good honest bar room debate regarding those matters that we all saw differently!

 

[Browner]

You read it here first.

Yep, the old scrum collapser was back ! well done DaveT

 

[BikingBud]

Not quite sure what the holiday practices of toerag thieves has to do with anything

The point being that everyone that saw it and has subsequently commented upon the seriousness of the action yet the resulting sentence is exceptionally lenient. Like sending the car thief on a nice trip away rather than putting him inside!

The fact that Cole did not suffer any aggravated injury is by the by, or is it? Clark got a lengthy ban for breaking an arm; if the ball had left the ruck and play continued without injury would he have been cited and banned? Healey's intent was nowhere near the ball deliberately stamping, as in that manner, should be a large and inexcusable sanction, ie no mitigating factors allowed.

The other event well if you didn't see it "shrug" neither did the ref or the ARs or the citing commissioner so maybe I did imagine it! Be interested to hear other thoughts.

 

[Mike Whittaker]

If only the fair sentencing for foul play offences were as easy and simple as taking a poll at the bar after a few pints! No doubt that is where the idea of sending a car thief on a nice holiday came from... Or was it imagined?

It is logical that for any foul play offence there has to be a guideline sentence - this however must surely then be adjusted for harm and culpability before then taking into account any aditional aggravating or mitigating factors. Only structured thinking can arrive at sensible conclusions.

Unfortunately anecdotal evidence is of little assistance but I think the powers that be do their best.