Enough advantage or no?

[Wedgie]

Continuing the recent themes of the ball ricocheting around near the try line and discussions on advantage......

The following happened in an U14 match - not that I think that fact matters in law, it just helps explain the catalogue of errors....

Red attacking and chip over blue defence and the ball goes in goal. Blue 15 does not touch down but chooses (!) to kick for touch, makes a complete hash of it and ball is kicked only as far as the 5m line where it is picked up by retiring Blue 14 facing his own goal line. Penalty advantage was signalled against Blue 14 for playing the ball from an offside position when he is immediately gets crunched from behind by advancing red player. Blue 14 spills the ball backwards where it bounces once, and is picked up by Red 8 who moves towards the goal line - in fact over the goal line by a metre or so.

Blue 15 (thinking that he really should try and make amends) takes his head from his hands and tackles Red 8 in goal - in the process Red 8 spills the ball forward and third Blue player touches down. Ref calls no advantage and goes back for the Red penalty on the 5m line where, predictably (being U14) the large Red 8 taps, goes low and scores.

From kick to touch down was <10 seconds (i.e. pretty quick)

Blue coaches livid thinking that Red possession of the ball over the try line was advantage enough from the offside penalty and that a 22, or 5m defensive scrum, or anything but the original penalty should have been given.

Thoughts?

 

[crossref]

for a PK advantage - that seems like the right call to me.

It's a PK that they are very likely to score from, but worth hanging on for a short time to see if they score anyway - <10 seconds seems perfectly reasonable, but they didn't score, so back for the PK.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Blue 15 does not touch down but chooses (!) to kick for touch, makes a complete hash of it and ball is kicked only as far as the 5m line where it is picked up by retiring Blue 14 facing his own goal line. Penalty advantage was signalled. PEEP loud and proud at this point, PK to red crunch or no crunch

Red is my writing, advantage must be immediate. Red didn't even hold the ball, blue 14 did. Plus U14

 

[Taff]

.... advantage must be immediate.

Where does it say that then?

I know the lawbook says that advantage must be real, and not just the opportunity to gain an advantage, but I don't remember reading that it had to be "immediate".

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Taff, you are correct, immediate is not used in that context. Clear and real are used.

Immediate is the whistle when ref decides advantage cannot be gained.

The advantage described by the OP is neither tactical or territorial.

 

[damo]

In the situation you describe of an offside player playing the ball 5 metres from his own tryline, I am pretty much never going to call advantage over unless a try is scored. I would also have been looking hard at where the red players were in proximity to where the ball landed from the kick, and potentially thinking about a penalty try.

Referee got it right not to call advantage over.

 

[menace]

I'm with NKW. As soon as the offside player gained possession (as opposed to juggling the ball) then peep for PK. In this cases it was mere luck that the red crunch tackle caused blue offside to lose possession, but ordinarily that would not happen so why wait, wasting time, for a possible advantage that 'should' be unlikely to occur? (Bit like playing advantage for a regathered knock on! Which some refs things some sort of advantage might eventuate from somewhere?)

as it turned out In this case it resulted in a bit of a 'situation'. I don't think the outcome was wrong to go back for the PK, but I can also understand the coach thinking red had the advantage by being over the line and his side saved the day..but only for red to get another crack)

Ps if it was seniors game I'd be inclined to YC the offside player for deliberate/cynical infringement and also PT would be a definite possibility...as likely that blue player had prevented a probable try!

 

[Dixie]

Given the decision to look for advantage, and given the age group, I'd make the same call as the referee. Adults - I'd make a call on the facts, but would still tend to the PK in the absence of a score.

 

[coonor]

Given the decision to look for advantage, and given the age group, I'd make the same call as the referee. Adults - I'd make a call on the facts, but would still tend to the PK in the absence of a score.

I agree. Especially at this age group it's better to give players abit more freedom to play and use advantage.

 

[andyscott]

Always play advantage unless

Its obvious there is none
Its a tackle offence.

 

[irishref]

I was assessed recently, a point on my report was that I held advantage too long

1 week later I did a game (on astroturf) with an excellent (english) coach (who used to coach the dutch national team) saying my advantage was too short.

National perception playing a role? I don't know...

 

[OB..]

I was assessed recently, a point on my report was that I held advantage too long

1 week later I did a game (on astroturf) with an excellent (english) coach (who used to coach the dutch national team) saying my advantage was too short.

National perception playing a role? I don't know...

Had you changed your style? What advice did they give as to how long you should let advantage run for?