[Law] France v England - 30/4/2021

[didds]

Another debating point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUxQHwC9m20&t=3770s

As you start to run the YT video keep an eye on poppy cleal on the floor - as the camera zooms she is into the left hand bottom corner of the screen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUxQHwC9m20&t=3770s

Thoughts?

 

[UpandUnder]

Had a little look down before she dropped the knee. That's a pretty clear red to me.

 

[didds]

and I think she was very lucky to not get a RC I agree.

is there a case to be made (quasi devil's advocate) that Cleal (white) holding onto the leg destabilised the blue player who fell and was not in control of her limbs, constrained as she was by white's holding onto the other leg?

 

[Camquin]

I think the TMO suggested a red - I do wish the commentators would shut up when the TO4 are discussing sanctions - but the ref decided that it was only a yellow due to mitigating circumstances.

 

[Flish]

Surely, if you believe the player has transgressed then it’s red? I can see the argument for uncertainty, was she pulled / did she stumble - but I don’t see YC, it’s one or the other I think.

 

[didds]

I think the TMO suggested a red - I do wish the commentators would shut up when the TO4 are discussing sanctions - but the ref decided that it was only a yellow due to mitigating circumstances.

It must be said that the coverage of these women's games while hugely welcomed has had a lot of waffling going on. I also appreciate there may well be an element of introducing a new demographic/audience to the games/coverage that may need things explaining, but its not the explanations that are the annoying prattling... there's a lot of speaking for speaking's sake.

 

[thepercy]

It looks like the Blue player drops the knee on the shoulder of White player holding her foot for no apparent reason, then the White player holds her eye like that is where she was hit. Any case for 9.7.C here?

 

[Flish]

It looks like the Blue player drops the knee on the shoulder of White player holding her foot for no apparent reason, then the White player holds her eye like that is where she was hit. Any case for 9.7.C here?

Fully agree white shares some responsibility for being a pain (like every professional breakdown you see), but contact point wasn't shoulder, it was chin / neck so *if* deemed as a reckless or deliberate act that's Red - *if*. As to white over egging it? Maybe, but you react and you run the risk of the worse sanction :-(

 

[Phil E]

I seem to be in a minority of one here, but for me the YC was the right call. Mitigate down from a Red because of Whites actions.
If white hadn't grabbed her leg it never would have happened, the knee went down to the shoulder and only skimmed the head because white had got her off balance. White made a meal of it in my opinion.
Yellow seems right, but I would have been tempted to YC both of them and then give the penalty to White.

 

[crossref]

I seem to be in a minority of one here, but for me the YC was the right call. Mitigate down from a Red because of Whites actions.
If white hadn't grabbed her leg it never would have happened, the knee went down to the shoulder and only skimmed the head because white had got her off balance. White made a meal of it in my opinion.
Yellow seems right, but I would have been tempted to YC both of them and then give the penalty to White.

minority of two, as I agree .... if it was in the sort of game I might be reffing. In that scenario I think a RC would take everyone by surprise, while Phil's approach would have players from both sides nodding along.

In an international game with TMOs and video, well I don't know, I can see that a RC might have happened.

 

[Flish]

In the games I ref I wouldn’t have seen it, my eyes were on the handbags elsewhere, first I’d know would be when the touchline erupts and I have no idea what has happened and would be powerless to defuse it

 

[UpandUnder]

I seem to be in a minority of one here, but for me the YC was the right call. Mitigate down from a Red because of Whites actions.
If white hadn't grabbed her leg it never would have happened, the knee went down to the shoulder and only skimmed the head because white had got her off balance. White made a meal of it in my opinion.
Yellow seems right, but I would have been tempted to YC both of them and then give the penalty to White.

Mitigation does not apply for intentional or highly reckless acts of foul play

 

[crossref]

In the games I ref I wouldn’t have seen it, my eyes were on the handbags elsewhere, first I’d know would be when the touchline erupts and I have no idea what has happened and would be powerless to defuse it

 

[Phil E]

Mitigation does not apply for intentional or highly reckless acts of foul play

The mitigation comment was in relation to the minimal head contact, for which mitigation is allowed in the head contact protocol.

In fact mitigation in foul play happens all the time, as we as referees regularly take other events into account when deciding on sanctions. Was that high tackle a Red, Yellow or just a PK? We may not call it mitigation, but that is the process we are going through in our minds.

 

[UpandUnder]

In this case what Blue 6 does is both intentional and reckless with contact to the head area, it's a clear RC.

In your opinion.

 

[UpandUnder]

Why did you delete my post? It was informative and explained when mitigation can be used and when it shouldn't be used.

Yes I gave my opinion but isn't that what forums are for?

 

[Phil E]

Damn, sorry, that was completely unintentional.
I must have hit edit instead of reply (the buttons are next to each other for mods).

I do apologise, not sure if I can undo that action but will try. (EDIT I cant undo the action, sorry)

Sorry again, it wasn't meant to be censorship, just a cockup.