France V Ireland - Mark Called

[Yaweesh]

Hi,

Can't seem to find anything written in law about this...

About 11 minutes into the game, Rob Kearney makes a clean catch inside his 22 from a French kick and hares off down the pitch. Looks very non-plussed when Dave Pearson blows up and calls him back for the mark. DP points to Paul O'Connell and clearly says - "he called it"... not disputed by PO.

Is it common practice to allow a player other than the catcher to call the mark, captain or otherwise ?

Many thanks.

 

[Davet]

Mark must be called by the catcher.

I assume that Kearney called it and DP was telling the captain that this is what had happened.

 

[Yaweesh]

Sorry Davet, I wasn't clear: DP was definitely explaining to Kearny that his captain had called the mark.

 

[Jacko]

In a stadium like that for a game like that there must be an amount of guesswork involved because it is impossible to hear the player's call over the crowd noise. This has resulted in the player indicating with a free kick gesture that he is claiming a mark - it would seem practicle to take his word for it.

There is no justification in law for a player other than the catcher calling for the mark.

 

[didds]

Just looked at it on iplayer... kearney reacts post catch that he hadn;t called it (but that could just be duplicity).

DP definitely says - twice - "He called it".

DP definitely points at O'Connell when Kearney says something to him.

Too much crowd noise to tell from the "tv" whether mark had been called or not, but Kearney definitely didn't wave to the cameras or anything to suggest he might be attempting a mark (and I can't say i've noticed anyone ever doing so but that's not to say they haven't

didds

 

[crossref]

in a crowded stadium where it's clear that any shout from the catcher couldn't be heard, well then if thecatcher's captain, a bit nearer to the catcher than you are, helpfully relays to you that his player has called a mark, you could be forgiven for believing him...

 

[didds]

Oh, indeed. But how do you - as ref - in a crowded, noisy stadium, know that the person that has called the mark on the catchers behalf was the person you thought it was... and not an opponent (for whatever reason that may be!)

didds

 

[Davet]

I remember vividly getting conned at a game when the player behind the catcher called the Mark - only after I'd blown did I think, "hang on! I know that voice - Goggs you bad boy (or words to that effect)".

I did make him buy me a pint later.

 

[Yaweesh]

Thanks all,

That's sort of the debate that I was having in my head.

1: Not allowed in law.
2: PO may have felt he was only ensuring that DP got the message. The fact that RK thought differently was more a slight embarrassment to PO than anything else.
3: I'm sure a ref of DP's experience would not have reacted to an anonymous shout from the ether, and checked first that it was PO. Then did a quick "management" equation in his head - noisy stadium, probably missed the catcher's shout, skipper wants the FK so who's going to argue.

Fortunately, the French team hadn't yet heard of the "award for player knowing the laws" thread, or they could have made more of it !
Many thanks

 

[FlipFlop]

More to the point I think he did the:

An Irish person shouted Mark. Don't know if the catcher did, clearly the advantage would be with the Irish, who slipped hte tackle, and call is unsportsmanlike, so not going to give them the benefit of the French stopping thinking it was the catcher. So will award it.

No basis in Law but I have done the same. I have played on when lots have called "mark" with a "sorry guys you can't call it, and your calls meant I couldn't hear if he did call it". Also called the mark when team mates have called it, but the catcher "probably" did not. Why - not giving the team a benefit by non-catchers calling mark. Never had it happen twice in a game. Never had any complaints. But then it is all in the sell. And by passing the blame to the team mates.

As I said - not justified in Law, but I select the outcome to disadvantage the team infringing (i.e. players not catching it calling mark)

 

[crossref]

a mark is quite tricky.

while I don't ref in noisy stadiums (ahem) marks are still tricky with kids as
-- catchers tend to be a bit diffident and shout too quietly, did I hear it? didn't I?
-- younger players are very often unfamiliar with marks so you don't necessarily get the helpful cue of all the players around the catcher reacting to the call

I have yet to give a mark below U15, and even at U15 marks seem quite rare..