[INTERNATIONAL] France v Italy

[OB..]

You may not like it, but that's what the law says. We can't just referee the laws we like and ignore the others can we?

You already do: how often do you penalise a scrum half for hands in the ruck?

[LAWS]A player must not tackle (or try to tackle) an opponent above the line of the shoulders even
if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders. A tackle around the opponent’s neck or
head is dangerous play.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]
You are arguing that making high contact can NEVER be accidental. Unusual, yes; impossible, no.

There is no law that says it doesn't apply if the tackler is 7 foot tall and the ball carrier is 5 foot short....or if the ball carrier makes himself shorter by bending over. If you tackle low and legally it will never be a problem.

The advice is unrealistic. Going for the ball is a standard technique in appropriate circumstances.

 

[Phil E]

You are arguing that making high contact can NEVER be accidental. Unusual, yes; impossible, no.

The law doesn't allow us to ignore high tackles, accidental or otherwise.

The advice is unrealistic. Going for the ball is a standard technique in appropriate circumstances.

...and it brings with it the risk of being penalised. Actions and consequences.

 

[OB..]

The law doesn't allow us to ignore high tackles, accidental or otherwise.

You are choosing a strict interpretation in this case but not in others.

 

[Phil E]

You are choosing a strict interpretation in this case but not in others.

We apply strict interpretations where safety is involved.

i.e.
High tackles.
Tip Tackles.
Scrum Collapses.
etc.

 

[davidlandy]

We apply strict interpretations where safety is involved.

i.e.
High tackles.
Tip Tackles.
Scrum Collapses.
etc.

Makes sense - and I agree with you.

What is your view on the tip tackle in IRE v WAL?

I would also appreciate your thoughts on JG allowing play to continue when scrums had already collapsed in that same match, despite the laws saying that the ref must blow up straight away. This practice seems to be fairly frequent in international rugby as far as I can tell?

I'm asking your opinion because I can see from your profile that you train refs, I'm an armchair ref and struggle to see the rationale sometimes.

 

[DocY]

I would also appreciate your thoughts on JG allowing play to continue when scrums had already collapsed in that same match, despite the laws saying that the ref must blow up straight away. This practice seems to be fairly frequent in international rugby as far as I can tell?

Blowing up straight away for collapsed scrums is a safety issue - far more so with smaller, more inexperienced players. For professional players it's a different story - so much so that they'll do it deliberately!

I quite like referees doing it in internationals. If it's not material, why waste time with another scrum (which will probably do the same thing)?

At lower levels though, it shouldn't be considered. Players lack the strength and technique to collapse 'safely' and serious injury could occur.

 

[davidlandy]

At lower levels though, it shouldn't be considered. Players lack the strength and technique to collapse 'safely' and serious injury could occur...

... if players continue to push after the scrum has collapsed?

@PhilE

Would still appreciate your view on the tip tackle - is it possible it was not cited because the player was not "dropped or driven"? Or do you think it's a complete mistake and should have been YC/RC?

 

[didds]

From what I recall, it looks as if the tackler realsies where he is and in surprise/panic lets go of the tackled player. ie ... dropped. The tackled player manages to just get an arm out to cuschin the fall but lands on his upper arm/shoulder area.

So not driven into the ground, but certainly no attempt to lower gently or even hold player up .

http://www.punditarena.com/uncatego...-seen-yellow-for-his-tackle-on-liam-williams/

That's getting close to a red card surely? No attempt to mitigate the lift past the horizontal. Accepted its totally accidental but isn't it "start at red and work backwards for mitigating circumstances" ?

didds

 

[Phil E]

Thanks for the link Didds, that's the first time I have seen it (must have been at the bar at the time).

Not the best video, and not at full speed, but does it look like the red player jumps as much as he is lifted?
It starts off as a text book tackle.

Anyone got a better video?

 

[didds]

Must say when I saw it live at full speed my first thought was "nah, no tip tackle there".

Then the ref checked with the TMO later and on replay it fulfills everything needed for a tip tackle. The onus is on the tackler to not go through 90 degrees and to protect the ball carrier of he does.

didds

 

[OB..]

I was watching the game on replay and immediately replayed this tackle. The commentator suggested Red jumped into the tackle but I do not see that. The problem was that Green was static and lifted. Almost inevitably he then lost control. A clear yellow for me.

 

[crossref]

I thought it was a card. I watched the replay wondering if it would be a RC, but concluded it would be a YC.

I was a little surprised it was only PK - but then that's in line with the way the RWC was reffed, minimal sanction on field and then a ban in the tribunal.

 

[chrismtl]

For anyone looking for the Parise incident, here's the video of the replay that they showed on the live feed. I cut it for another discussion I was having about the match. For me, initial contact was with the face, and even once he's on the ground, part of the hand is still on the neck.


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeR1vae2JXg" target="_blank">

 

[didds]

But in the process of blue 8 and white 20 going down, blue 8 hits the dirt and white 20 ends up on top of him with his hands on him. To my mind that counts as a tackle.

So if you fall over and I jump on top of you that is a tackle? Never.

The requirement is to be held and brought to ground, not the other way around.


Didds

 

[OB..]

From the video it is clearly a high tackle, technically, although it hardly looks dangerous.

Does Parisse fall because of contact with 20's leg as the latter pushes away the attempted fend, or is it the initial pull on that arm that does it?

 

[davidlandy]

Thanks for the link Didds, that's the first time I have seen it (must have been at the bar at the time).

Not the best video, and not at full speed, but does it look like the red player jumps as much as he is lifted?
It starts off as a text book tackle.

Anyone got a better video?

I can't find any better video - only some stills :sad:

There's also his tip tackle on Tom James, in which he landed him flat on his back (from a height). No on-field or off-field call for that one - thought it was also "dangerous" if landed on back?

I was beginning to think this was Earls's tackling style: set, grip, drive up, and... oops!

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