[Law] Free Kicks & Penalty Kicks

[great_captain]

Dear All,

I would like to ask you some questions about free kicks and penalty kicks. I have tried to find the answers in the rulebook, but I couldn't. So, I hope you can help me.

PENALTY KICK.

1) A team which have indicated their intention to kick at goal must kick at goal. Let's imagine this situation. A team have indicated their intention to kick at goal. The designated kicker is ready to kick for 3 points. All of a sudden, he changes his mind.. He takes the ball and run. What should the referee do?

2) A team have indicated their intention to kick at goal. The designated kicker kicks the ball trying to score 3 points. However, the ball is kicked so badly that it goes into touch. How will the game continue? With a lineout?

FREE KICK

Please watch this video. Go to 2:20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-KZ1ewsn0Q

New Zealand are awarded a free kick. David Kirk taps the ball and then passes it to Grant Fox, who kicks a dropped goal. This is 1987, so it was allowed. If this play occurred now, what would happen? What would the referee do?

Thanks for your answers.

 

[buff]

1. Blow the whistle to stop play and have the non-offending team take the kick at goal. He can't change his mind.
2. Lineout to the other team.
3. 8.29: The team awarded a free-kick (including where they opt for a scrum or lineout instead) cannot score a dropped goal until the ball next becomes dead or until an opponent has played the ball, has touched it or has tackled the ball-carrier. Any such kick is deemed to be unsuccessful and play continues.
I have never seen it happen, but the non-offending team could carry on as it sees fit. Presumably make the ball dead, if it didn't go past the dead ball line or go touch in goal, and take the 22m drop out.

 

[great_captain]

Hey Buff.

Thanks for your answer. I have the 2020 World Rugby Laws in front of my eyes. I was able to find 8.29 and its explanation. However, I still can't find any explanations for the first two cases in the rulebook. Could anyone help me in finding those two cases? Thanks.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

1:
Law 8.20 indicates that he team "MUST kick at goal. Note that there is no sanction in the law book.

Note in 2017 , before the "re-write and not amendment" fiasco there was a clear sanction

2017 Law Book

21.5 SCORING A GOAL FROM A PENALTY KICK

(b) If the kicker indicates to the referee the intention to kick at goal, the kicker must kick at goal.
Once the kicker has made the intention clear, there can be no change of the intention. The
referee may enquire of the kicker as to the intention.

Sanction: Unless otherwise stated in Law any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a
scrum at the mark. The opposing team throws in the ball.

So you pays your money and you takes your choise!

2:
The Law writers ignored this one! I think we can have some sympathy as it is such an unlikely situation that it really only enters the head when you extrapolate senarios the the nth degree. THere are referees who would give the throw to the kickers team in as it was a kick from a penalty that went into touch (Gain and retain). Others would give the throw to the non kicking team because the law says "gsin and retain" only applies to an intentional kick to touch. They ask the question "why "reward" the failed kicker with the throw in? The old "two bites of the cherry" argument.

I'd seek guidance from your local society as to what they expect you to do in both cases. They want a consistent approach from their referees. Go with the flow.

The Drop goal from a PK is, as buff states very easy. The kick is effectively just a punt up field. Treat it as such.

 

[didds]

1:
... Others would give the throw to the non kicking team because the law says "gsin and retain" only applies to an intentional kick to touch.

does it have tio be an intentional kick to touch though?

CF a high hanging kick (garryowen/up and under) that everybody mnisses and it lands, bounces, rols and rolls and rolls and goes into touch... no gain and retain for that?

didds

 

[Marc Wakeham]

does it have tio be an intentional kick to touch though?

CF a high hanging kick (garryowen/up and under) that everybody mnisses and it lands, bounces, rols and rolls and rolls and goes into touch... no gain and retain for that?

didds

I'd say there is a difference between a kick at goal Where we can, pretty, safely assume the kick was not "to touch". Other kicks would require a more subjective interpretation of the kicker's intentions if you applied your interpritation.

 

[didds]

Yes - Agreed. But the claim was an intenyional kick to touch for gain and retauin... I was wonderifgn where that featured in law or was merely an "thought" - not calling anyone out! wiondering if it was another nuance ive completely missed!

Put another way - if the kick was clearly nto got goal (ie not indicated as such, and was from hand) but didnt necessarily obviously be dirtected at row ZZZ/ the next county, can that not also get a retained throw if it ends up in touch? Becasue before the above claiom id have assumed it always did.

didds

 

[great_captain]

I'd say there is a difference between a kick at goal Where we can, pretty, safely assume the kick was not "to touch". Other kicks would require a more subjective interpretation of the kicker's intentions if you applied your interpritation.

Maybe we can imagine this scenario.

Penalty. Kick at goal... The ball hits the post and then goes into touch (of course no player touches the ball)...

The Drop goal from a PK is, as buff states very easy. The kick is effectively just a punt up field. Treat it as such.

When was the rule changed?

I'd seek guidance from your local society as to what they expect you to do in both cases. They want a consistent approach from their referees. Go with the flow.

I am not a referee... Just a rugby fan...

 

[chbg]

1:
Law 8.20 indicates that he team "MUST kick at goal. Note that there is no sanction in the law book.

Note in 2017 , before the "re-write and not amendment" fiasco there was a clear sanction

So you pays your money and you takes your choice!

To assist your decision, if there is, or would be (!), more than a minute between the intention to kick of goal and the correct execution, then the outcome would be a scrum to the opposition.

I'd seek guidance from your local society as to what they expect ... in both cases. They want a consistent approach from their referees.

Good advice for clubs/captains needing direction too!

 

[Jz558]

For me:

1 - Retake the penalty. Having indicated the intention they must kick for goal. For sometime after the rewrite I would have awarded a scrum to the opposition for an incorrectly taken penalty kick but now take the view that the law book we have is the law book to be used and no sanction is indicated.

2 - Play on if satisfied it was a valid attempt at goal but as has been pointed out, who gets the throw isn’t covered in law. I would give it to the opposition but pretty sure you could sell it either way.

3 - No score, play on. Depending on the level try and manage it to avoid a situation where the opposition stop playing because they think a score has occurred. If they do stop and the side who took the penalty end up scoring then think of something equitable quick :biggrin:.

 

[OB..]

Here is Clarification 2 of 2006

Clarification 2 2006

Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee

Ruling​

2-2006

Union / HP Ref Manager​

FFR

Law Reference​

19,21

Date​

10 January 2006

Request
Law 19.1 (e) stipulates: “Penalty kick. When a player kicks to touch from a penalty kick anywhere in the playing area, the throw in is taken from where the ball went into touch.”

Law 19.4 (Exception) has the following precision. “When a team takes a penalty kick, and the ball is kicked into touch, the throw in is taken by the player of the team who took the penalty kick. This applies whether the ball was kicked directly or indirectly into touch.”

Finally, Law 21.4 (d) requires for “kicking for touch. The kicker may punt or drop kick for touch but must not place kick for touch.”

Following a penalty kick and after the ball was kicked, the ball hits the goal post and goes into touch without having been touched by another player.
What decision should the referee give?

Ruling of the designated members of the Rugby Committee
If the penalty kick is for goal, then it is a lineout defending team to throw in.
Law 21.4(d).

If the penalty kick is for touch, therefore no place kick, then it is a lineout attacking team to throw in.


The lineout in either of these situations may not be closer than 5 metres from the goal line. Law 19.4 Exception.

I have always argued that this was nonsense, and I hope it has been forgotten by now.

There was a vogue for kicking a PK to touch via a place kick because some thought it was more effective, but the ban was because it wasted time.

 

[crossref]

quite a cute ploy on a FK might be

- quick tap and pass it back to your 10 who is in the pocket
- #10 drop kicks toward the post
- defenders are put off guard as they will immediately focus on the fact that a DG is impossible - they might even start appealing to the ref etc
- onside attacker runs through the confused defenders to collect the ball and score a try

it would take a skilful kick, but I think it could be done, if close enough to the posts, and you balloon the kick upwards a bit.

 

[didds]

CR - Id be surprised if it hasnt been tried somewhere somewhen

didds

 

[crossref]

Obviously the kick doesn't have to go through the posts, but ideally it would !

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Maybe we can imagine this scenario.

Penalty. Kick at goal... The ball hits the post and then goes into touch (of course no player touches the ball)...


When was the rule changed?


I am not a referee... Just a rugby fan...

THe rule changed on scoring from a Free kick back around 1990 I was still palying when the law changed.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

To assist your decision, if there is, or would be (!), more than a minute between the intention to kick of goal and the correct execution, then the outcome would be a scrum to the opposition.



Good advice for clubs/captains needing direction too!

1st part is a different offence though.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

For me:

3 - No score, play on. Depending on the level try and manage it to avoid a situation where the opposition stop playing because they think a score has occurred. If they do stop and the side who took the penalty end up scoring then think of something equitable quick :biggrin:.

LOUD "PLAY ON!" call.

 

[MadRef77]

quite a cute ploy on a FK might be

- quick tap and pass it back to your 10 who is in the pocket
- #10 drop kicks toward the post
- defenders are put off guard as they will immediately focus on the fact that a DG is impossible - they might even start appealing to the ref etc
- onside attacker runs through the confused defenders to collect the ball and score a try

it would take a skilful kick, but I think it could be done, if close enough to the posts, and you balloon the kick upwards a bit.

It doesn't even need to be a genuine attempt at drop-kicking it: an half-arsed punt would do it.

 

[MadRef77]

Obviously the kick doesn't have to go through the posts, but ideally it would !

It should be better aimed between the posts for the effect to be achieved, unless the opposition are dumb enough to freeze in front of a blatantly missed DG...

 

[Dickie E]

It should be better aimed between the posts for the effect to be achieved, unless the opposition are dumb enough to freeze in front of a blatantly missed DG...

and might even bounce back after hitting the crossbar to give the lumbering prop his first try of his career!