Gloucester v Bath

[Pegleg]

Funny that his methods are so bad yet it works! Perhaps those being critical need to re-evaluate?

 

[OB..]

Funny that his methods are so bad yet it works! Perhaps those being critical need to re-evaluate?

perhaps he gets away with it it is because he is good technically? As a management technique it is generally derided.

 

[Pegleg]

And yet he is one of the top refs in the world. I think you have your priorities all wrong. He clearly gets results out of players. Not allways no ref does. Yet he does far more than most referees. he is in an elite band we have at the top of the moment. Barnes has a different style that too works - for him!

I find it "amusing" that people are moaning about a ref using a style that works for him and for the players he referees! I think you are focusing on the wrong place. We shjould be concentrating on areas where referees are failing in their roles and leave the successes to continue their self assessment etc to maintain their standards. After all these guys are at a far higher level than you or I. So he seems to be getting more right than wrong!

Or to put it as simply as possibly:


HIS STYLE WORKS. So what the hell is the problem?

 

[OB..]

HIS STYLE WORKS. So what the hell is the problem?

He gets away with it because of other factors. As a management style it is not to be copied (you have already agreed it would not work for you).

Are you claiming he is a top referee BECAUSE of this aspect of his style?

 

[Pegleg]

Come off it OB (OB-tuse?) His whole "toolbox" makes him the ref he is. I'd expect better from you.

No his style would not work for me. Then again Browner's / Taff's Etx probably would not either.

The point is his style is part of what makes him a very highly regarded and respected referee amongst Players, Coaches, World Rugby officialdon and even spectators (albeit by neither set of supporters at a Scarlets V Ospreys game).

His style has taken him a lot further than you or I so I'm quite happy for him to employ that tyle as it WORKS for him. I'll not use it becasue it would not be good style for me. That does not make it a bad style just different and...did I say it before? It WORKS! I find it strang that an assessor / advisor is moaning about a style that is effective. FOr crying out loud, surely we want effective referees. Nigel is effective. Please let advisors concentrate on developing referees and not bellyaching about ones who have been there and have got the T shirt. Same with Walsh some don't like his style but it works. Good for him. Barnes too.

Perhaps people moaning about a success's style says more about them than him.

 

[OB..]

The point is his style is part of what makes him a very highly regarded and respected referee amongst Players, Coaches, World Rugby officialdon and even spectators (albeit by neither set of supporters at a Scarlets V Ospreys game).

His style has taken him a lot further than you or I so I'm quite happy for him to employ that tyle as it WORKS for him.

You are arguing that without this aspect of his style he would be a lesser referee. I will permanently disagree. It is hard to disentangle the multiple facets of top class refereeing, but I will continue to assert that talking down to people is bad management. I do not believe his success turns into a good technique.

We are going round in circles. I will therefore stop. Feel free to continue.

 

[Browner]

He's making the point in a way that works for him. I would not do so for me. Act like kids get treated like it. I have no problem with his aproach (or Walsh, Barnes etc) if it works then do it. If it does not? change it.

Noting this discussion has gone fftopic: without Mod intervention, i'll join in ...to hopefully expedite its ending !

Hmmnn, you're seemingly arguing that 'any approach' that works is justifiable, even it involved even more 'self promotion' that NO display, surely you can see that this style isn't universally practice's nowadays and NO retains his style due to his past record ?

Anyway, back to the thread , I'm not hearing much support for the perma-chat scrum management style.

 

[RobLev]

I agree. He's coming across as if hes a high school principal/police sargeant rather than someone who's suppose to be a game facilitator.

I think that we're missing some context.

If St Nige's management style were purely a constant stream of one-line putdowns it couldn't possibly work. If however he is reserving this particular approach for when the players patently aren't listening to the usual chat, as a means of getting their attention (in which case arguably the more stinging the better), I don't see a problem with it.

It is true that there are a fair number of these comments on the Interwebz; but since he's reffing at least a game a week, and presumably most of them are being recorded, that doesn't mean he's doing it all game every game. We don't see players and coaches complaining about his approach, which surely means he's doing something right...

 

[Pegleg]

I think that we're missing some context.

If St Nige's management style were purely a constant stream of one-line putdowns it couldn't possibly work. If however he is reserving this particular approach for when the players patently aren't listening to the usual chat, as a means of getting their attention (in which case arguably the more stinging the better), I don't see a problem with it.

It is true that there are a fair number of these comments on the Interwebz; but since he's reffing at least a game a week, and presumably most of them are being recorded, that doesn't mean he's doing it all game every game. We don't see players and coaches complaining about his approach, which surely means he's doing something right...

Thank GOD for someone with sone contextual judgement. He makes a hand full of comments but people can't see them in context. The highlighted bit is very significant. IF his approach was a problem there would be complaints from the elite players coaches etc. There are none so somefolk are making mountains out of very small molehills.

 

[menace]

I think that we're missing some context.

If St Nige's management style were purely a constant stream of one-line putdowns it couldn't possibly work. If however he is reserving this particular approach for when the players patently aren't listening to the usual chat, as a means of getting their attention (in which case arguably the more stinging the better), I don't see a problem with it.

It is true that there are a fair number of these comments on the Interwebz; but since he's reffing at least a game a week, and presumably most of them are being recorded, that doesn't mean he's doing it all game every game. We don't see players and coaches complaining about his approach, which surely means he's doing something right...

Very true, but I made my opinion/comment not based on that one clip but because of the many times I've seen his style in action. We all have our own style and I'm sure many players in my area don't like my style. I was just commenting that I wasnt a fan of his 'talk down' style and I wouldn't like to be spoken to that way if I was a pro player.

And in reality the pro players/coaches know he's protected and are unlikely to say anything critical as they will get fined.

 

[RobLev]

...

And in reality the pro players/coaches know he's protected and are unlikely to say anything critical as they will get fined.

Really? I have just two words to say to you: Richard Cockerill. (And Dean Ryan, and...but you get the picture).

 

[menace]

There's always Cocks in the ranks!

 

[Adam]

Wait until someone uploads Ian Davies' "don't give me those puppy dog eyes" quote...

 

[Phil E]

Is Pegleg Nigel Owen in disguise? :chin:

 

[Dickie E]

Is Pegleg Nigel Owen in disguise? :chin:

wot? A gay pirate? Neverrrrrrr

 

[crossref]

Come off it OB (OB-tuse?) His whole "toolbox" makes him the ref he is. I'd expect better from you.

No his style would not work for me. Then again Browner's / Taff's Etx probably would not either.

The point is his style is part of what makes him a very highly regarded and respected referee amongst Players, Coaches, World Rugby officialdon and even spectators (albeit by neither set of supporters at a Scarlets V Ospreys game).

His style has taken him a lot further than you or I so I'm quite happy for him to employ that tyle as it WORKS for him. I'll not use it becasue it would not be good style for me. That does not make it a bad style just different and...did I say it before? It WORKS! I find it strang that an assessor / advisor is moaning about a style that is effective. FOr crying out loud, surely we want effective referees. Nigel is effective. Please let advisors concentrate on developing referees and not bellyaching about ones who have been there and have got the T shirt. Same with Walsh some don't like his style but it works. Good for him. Barnes too.

Perhaps people moaning about a success's style says more about them than him.

you see Nigel's bon mot as part of his strengths. Well probably yes - but there is a wise saying : in everyone's career eventually your strengths become your weaknesses.

It's because you over-rely on them, and overdo them

To me this is the precipice NO is skirting with every time a new yourtube witticism appears.

 

[Phil E]

you see Nigel's bon mot as part of his strengths. Well probably yes - but there is a wise saying : in everyone's career eventually your strengths become your weaknesses.

It's because you over-rely on them, and overdo them

To me this is the precipice NO is skirting with everytime a new yourtube witticism appears.

I sense some bloc caps, in bold, underlined on their way!!! :wink: :biggrin:

 

[OB..]

There is an old adage that claims "The end justifies the means".

It is false in the sense that if you do something Bad but still fail to achieve the Good, you are left with just the Bad (which cannot be Good :biggrin.

It seems to be agreed that Nigel Owens in indeed a top referee, but that talking to senior players as if they were children is basically a bad technique. The conclusion must be that he is getting away with it because of other aspects of his refereeing, and not that the technique itself has become good. Let's hope he does not overdo it and become a caricature of himself.

 

[Pegleg]

But is it bad? Who has a problem with it?


Elite players? There is no evidence that they do.

Elite coaches? There is no evidence that they do.

Elite Referee management / assessors etc? There is no evidence they do.

The media? There is no evidence that they do.

The Public? There is no evidence that they do.

A few people on here. It seems that a couple do.


No one else is finding it a problem. Certainly not one worth comment. So I contend you are seeing a problem where ther is not one.

The conclusion must be that it works for him. Not that his other skils overwrite this negative. That is merely your opinion. Which, with all due respect, is not chapter and verse.

As I've said why look for problems where none exists and when there are issues in elite refereeing such as the considering that s stamp on an ankle (that was apparently seen) can be judged as worth only a warning. THAT is the issue in a referee's performance that warrents debate. Not some thing that no one (present company) is questioning.

You're getting your knickers in a twist over nothing. I suggest, with due respect, that your focus is a little skewed.


I like his style. I'd not use it myself I could not carry it off.

I Like Walsh's style. I'd not use it myself I could not carry it off.

I like, overall, Barnes' style I'd not use it myself I could not carry it off.

I did not like, Spreadbury's style, I'd not use it myself I could not carry it off.

My view of eac hof the above ref style is a personal like / dislike it is not a comment on the validity of each individual style. They all work / worked for them. good luck to them.

Yes you have a point about overuse of a tool in to box. That is rarely good. It is that rather than the tools themselves that could be an issue. Judgement of when to use which tool is possibly the most important tool you have in your toolbox and the only one that should be used all the time.

If it aint broke don't fix it!

 

[Pegleg]

you see Nigel's bon mot as part of his strengths. Well probably yes - but there is a wise saying : in everyone's career eventually your strengths become your weaknesses.

It's because you over-rely on them, and overdo them

To me this is the precipice NO is skirting with every time a new yourtube witticism appears.

Well that your strengths might become your weakness does not mean they are wrong now.

That you are careful how you use each of the tools in your tool box is the key. We should not over-rely on an individual tool. But yest it COULD become a problem. But that applies to every strength.

I disagree with the last comment. Failure to sanction serious offending is far more likely to attract the sort of reaction that could push a referee of the elite podium than the odd throw away comment.