Hartley - will he get us out of a jam?

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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Does the penny always drop by farthings for you?

On this occasion it appears so.

I will try and pay more attention so your bon mots (or is it bons mots?) are not wasted.
 

OB..


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Bons Mot?
If it were French, then of course bons mots would be correct.

However it is being used in English and has been partly anglicised. Most people pronounce it like "Bonn mow", and some dictionaries go with this by allowing both bons mots and bon mots as the plural. Fowler sticks to the original French pronunciation, but as an alternative, does allow the final 's' to be pronounced in the plural (which the French do not).
 

Ian_Cook


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Lancaster was no doubt trying to emulate the All Blacks 'better people make better players' mantra. It does take a while to filter into place though. Not because you have to slowly weed out the players that don't fit, but because to change an ingrained culture (such as one of over use of alcohol, cliques, kangaroo courts etc) players have to learn new behaviours. You can't flick a switch.
It took the ABs years to really entrench this attitude within the team.

I can put a figure on that for you; It started with Graham Henry after the 2003 RWC.

The incomprehensible John Mitchell (who IMO was one of the worst coaches ever to coach the All Blacks) had allowed an arrogant drinking culture to take hold. Players were isolated from the media, were not approachable, and any public incidents were hushed up. It took Henry just a season to expunge that culture from the team and a further five years to really put in place the current culture of "better people make better All Blacks."

A key part of the mantra is the building of a "Leadership Group". While McCaw may have been the captain, leadership was never his sole responsibility. In the 2015 All Blacks, the Leadership Group would have been something like McCaw, Read, Conrad Smith, Ben Smith, Dan Carter, Liam Messam. Tony Woodcock, Keven Mealamu and Sam Whitelock. Their role was to assist the coaches and captain, to share responsibilities and ideas and to make sure nothing is missed.

Here is an excellent National Business Review article by Bruce Cotterill about the All Blacks' leadership model and the lessons to be learned for business leaders.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/lessons-leadership-all-blacks

'Better people' doesn't mean perfect people either. It means that if you do slip up you accept what you have done, face the consequences and work harder to regain trust. If you fail to take those steps then you don't fit.

A good example is Zac Guildford. He admitted to issues with alcohol after a couple of incidents in Auckland and Brisbane during the 2011 Tri-Nations. He met with All Blacks management who didn't ban him, instead giving him a chance to take the necessary steps to control his drinking. Then he slipped up November 2011 (just after the World Cup) with a series of alcohol fuelled attacks on patrons at a bar in Rarotonga......GONE!

Dylan Hartley, even if eligible, is not the sort of player IMO, who would ever be selected for the All Blacks. Others who come to mind are Wallabies Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper and James O'Connor.
 
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ChrisR

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Dylan Hartley, even if eligible, is not the sort of player IMO, who would never be selected for the All Blacks. Others who come to mind are Wallabies Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper and James O'Connor.


Ian, did you intend the 'double negative' here?
 

ChrisR

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The incomprehensible John Mitchell (who IMO was one of the worst coaches ever to coach the All Blacks) had allowed an arrogant drinking culture to take hold.


just what we need in the US of A.
 

Ian_Cook


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Dylan Hartley, even if eligible, is not the sort of player IMO, who would never be selected for the All Blacks. Others who come to mind are Wallabies Kurtley Beale, Quade Cooper and James O'Connor.


Ian, did you intend the 'double negative' here?

Typo fixed... thanks
 

ChrisR

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PlanetRugby quotes Eddie Jones:

"I’ve still got memories of JPR Williams, Phil Bennett, Colin Deans playing for Scotland – those great players."
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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PlanetRugby quotes Eddie Jones:

"I’ve still got memories of JPR Williams, Phil Bennett, Colin Deans playing for Scotland – those great players."

Is that what he said or is the quote just incorrectly punctuated?
 

Phil E


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Never seen together...

image.jpg
 

SimonSmith


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Never seen together...

attachment.php
Are you alleging that Dylan is a baby?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8fUDbDZo-E
 

RobLev

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I don't think that the two things are mutually exclusive.

Lancaster was no doubt trying to emulate the All Blacks 'better people make better players' mantra. It does take a while to filter into place though. Not because you have to slowly weed out the players that don't fit, but because to change an ingrained culture (such as one of over use of alcohol, cliques, kangaroo courts etc) players have to learn new behaviours. You can't flick a switch.
It took the ABs years to really entrench this attitude within the team.
'Better people' doesn't mean perfect people either. It means that if you do slip up you accept what you have done, face the consequences and work harder to regain trust. If you fail to take those steps then you don't fit.

There's a piece in the Independent this week about why Jim Mallinder chose him as Saints' captain 6 years ago and comparing it with Ferguson choosing Cantona as ManU's captain. Essentially it was because of the contribution he would make - and has made - to the team's culture. Mallinder was widely touted as a contender for the England role...
 

Rich


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I cannot think of anyone who epitomises the worst of the worst in Rugby better than Dylan Hartley. Frankly I am horrified that he is England Captain and don't really care either way if England do well with him at the helm in the 6 nations. I only hope that he gets a red card very soon and loses his captaincy. Please someone, lock him up and throw away the key.
 
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Drift


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Last time I checked the captain at the helm of the best England side for a very long time was Martin Johnson, who also had issues with discipline. I honestly don't give a shit if Hartley has been banned a few times in the past, it's what he does with this team I care about.
 
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