Holding shirt from behind- high tackle?

[MiniRef]

U17 game last week. Good game, no incidents. Red (big) player runs, with ball, towards Yellow (not so big) player. Yellow attempts a legitimate tackle but is fended off to the side. Yellow ends up grabbing the Red player's shirt between the shoulder blades (below the line of the shoulders) and hangs on for dear life! Red continues moving forward, albeit more slowly, until stopped by further Yellow players.
The shirt hold from the back naturally caused a tightening of the shirt across the chest (but open collar style so nowhere near a choke).
Ref blew for a high tackle. (there was no attempt to swing the player, simply the Yellow hanging on and being pulled along).
Clearly the ref decided it was dangerous (it was U17) so I wouldn't dispute his decision.
But, your thoughts please?
If you extend the principle then what happens to any shirt hold from behind?
What if it had been a senior game?

 

[crossref]

I would tend to think
- if he had the collar of the shirt, could be dangerous
- if he had the material of the shirt itself , shoudl be OK

Yellow ends up grabbing the Red player's shirt between the shoulder blades (below the line of the shoulders

)
sounds OK... but as you say could have looked ugly to the ref, from where he was standing.

 

[Davet]

Agree with Crossref.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Play on.

There is no Law against shirt-pulling.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

or shirt lifting:booty:

 

[PaulDG]

Play on.

There is no Law against shirt-pulling.

In England there is at U12 and below.

It's possible this ref doesn't do many junior games and thought the restriction for U7-U12 applied all the way up.

 

[Phil E]

In England there is at U12 and below.

Not exactly.

[LAWS]Note 2: The scrag type tackle (ie swinging the player round by the shirt) must be considered
dangerous play and must be penalised.[/LAWS]

It's the swinging round part that is illegal, not the act of just grabbing the shirt.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Not exactly.

[LAWS]Note 2: The scrag type tackle (ie swinging the player round by the shirt) must be considered
dangerous play and must be penalised.[/LAWS]

It's the swinging round part that is illegal, not the act of just grabbing the shirt.

I agree.

Would it also be illegal (at U12) to grab a player by his arm and swing him around in a similar manner?

 

[The Fat]

I agree.

Would it also be illegal (at U12) to grab a player by his arm and swing him around in a similar manner?

Our ARU Pathways Guidelines (U7-U12) state, "No jersey swinging tackles allowed (PK)".
As it is the swinging action that is considered dangerous, my PMB includes "No jersey or arm slinging tackles. Any questions?"

 

[PaulDG]

I agree.

Would it also be illegal (at U12) to grab a player by his arm and swing him around in a similar manner?

No. The perception is that the shirt can be pulled tight around the neck by the "swinging round". The arm is fair game.

And this isn't "just" a safety thing. Grabbing the shirt and swinging round isn't a particularly good tackle technique and these age groups are supposed to be there to learn the skills, not to be getting victories by whatever means necessary.

 

[Dixie]

No. The perception is that the shirt can be pulled tight around the neck by the "swinging round". The arm is fair game.

Paul, you say that with a very high degree of certainty. Have you had that confirmed by the RFU?

 

[OB..]

One of the effects of the IRB decision that you are not a tackler unless you go to ground in the tackle is that arm swinging tackles deny you a tackler's rights. It seems a good idea to me.

 

[PaulDG]

Paul, you say that with a very high degree of certainty. Have you had that confirmed by the RFU?

I've never asked about the arm - frankly when would you see it in a game?

I am quite confident about the reasons for prohibiting the shirt though.

 

[jynxy]

to hold onto a shirt i wouldhave thought been fair game, as long as it is not around the collar.

 

[Blackberry]

Just to get this absolutely straight, the scrag tackle (swing tackle) is outlawed at U12, but above that its OK? Is that right?

 

[OB..]

Just to get this absolutely straight, the scrag tackle (swing tackle) is outlawed at U12, but above that its OK? Is that right?

It's not specifically illegal, but the referee may decide it was dangerous.

 

[Blackberry]

Thanks OB, that makes sense