Hong Kong Sevens - a great festival of top class 7's

[MrQeu]

What about a compromise? 4 minute sanction instead of 2 (larger if playing the final) and the RCed player cannot play again in that tournament except if RC overthrown by a committee. Afterwards, the weeks ban as usual.

Something similar to ice hockey ejection if I'm not wrong.

Mind that playing 4 minutes 7vs6 is huge (huger than 2 mins which seems to me to happen to fast because once you score, it takes you some time to convert and restart and then the replacement player may come back) and, also, loosing a player for the rest of the tournament is a high impact on a sport which relies very much on substitutions to get some rest and avoid unnecessary efforts in games with a big score difference or to get rested players to attack fatigued ones.

 

[Mike Whittaker]

No! No! NO! Willful (or negligent) foul play - out of the game! No exception and no compromise.

 

[MrQeu]

Of course, the actual player that made the foul play is out, both for the game and the tournament. But a replacement can be brought in after some time.

Just an idea. Not actually defending it to be the one that will save the problem, but just to add an opinion on how other sports (ice hockey) deal with it.

 

[Browner]

Red card in Sevens, 10s and 15s in my judgement.
He drove up and then over-rotated on the way down.

Good referee management, until he showed just a YC

I can't imagine that the referee [or AR] at this Level didn't recognise it as a RC , which suggests deliberate 6 v 7 avoidance strategies employed by the OrgComm !

 

[Bryan]

I can't imagine that the referee [or AR] at this Level didn't recognise it as a RC , which suggests deliberate 6 v 7 avoidance strategies employed by the OrgComm !

This is pure speculation, and I can say that any edict to stick to yellow cards has been, up to now, total BS.

There are many discussions among the referees about where we give red cards. We are not "shying away from them". The blatant cheapshot after the try is scored and tripping an opponent are two areas where Red cards are emphasized if they are merited. The business about referees "ruining the game with red cards" went out the f**king window a long time ago. If it's the right decision, the OrgComm back us. If it's the wrong decision, we expect the journos to put it on thick and we accept it as a "hands up" moment.

I dont expect to be back in that arena, but given my brief experience there I would say we want the right and fair outcome, but a red is a red if it's deserved.

 

[Mike Whittaker]

Excellent comment and attitude. Am sure the great majority of us involved with the game support you and offer every encouragement to make those big decisions without fear of favour. The long term survival of the game depends upon it !!

 

[Blackberry]

... and you start to get "doubled guessed" where players reckon refs are loathe to give a RC in a final, so they stretch their limits of fair play / safety and we're into a whole new dangerous ball park.

 

[OB..]

No one wants to watch a 6 v 7 onslaught.

I do not want to see a team derive a benefit from a relatively minor penalty for a major offence. I would indeed prefer to see 6 v 7. It fits my concept of justice. And it might dissuade players from taking the RC risks.

 

[RobLev]

& there was me stupidly thinking it was a 'dangerous / serious injury prevention issue.

Yes 7's influentials, it's clearly permissable to break someones neck - forget his compressed spinal chord, his lifetime in a wheelchair, & the costs of a insurance & aftercare .............. the post match double punishment balances this amply. I can imagine lawyers4u pricking their ears up as we speak !

Did somebody call?

 

[Browner]

This is pure speculation, and I can say that any edict to stick to yellow cards has been, up to now, total BS.

There are many discussions among the referees about where we give red cards. We are not "shying away from them". The blatant cheapshot after the try is scored and tripping an opponent are two areas where Red cards are emphasized if they are merited. The business about referees "ruining the game with red cards" went out the f**king window a long time ago. If it's the right decision, the OrgComm back us. If it's the wrong decision, we expect the journos to put it on thick and we accept it as a "hands up" moment.

I dont expect to be back in that arena, but given my brief experience there I would say we want the right and fair outcome, but a red is a red if it's deserved.

I'm struggling to find anyone [this site or any other sites/media/journalist] who didn't immediately think RC for this Ilai Tinai tackle, both Ref & AR are high standard officials deserving of all thoughts of integrity [& the referees positioning was excellent] , nevertheless the suspicion is they would both RC this on every other occassion outside of HK7's. Proveable - of course not, speculative yes of course it is.

Fiji - HK 7's Final - Supporter Revenues/base - RC removalists - Fiji Star player - profile - spectacle - 0-12 down at incident - etc

Discredit or Label 'conspiracy theorist' if you want, but theorists exist because conspiracy happens.
& politics exist everywhere me ol ruggarfriend.

Conversely - failure to admit doesn't prove it's happening either ! :smile:

 

[AndyZ]

I do not want to see a team derive a benefit from a relatively minor penalty for a major offence. I would indeed prefer to see 6 v 7. It fits my concept of justice. And it might dissuade players from taking the RC risks.

And I agree with you. But tourney organizers have to make the fans happy as well. Where is the line between the laws of the game and the enjoymet of the spectators?

 

[Mike Whittaker]

And I agree with you. But tourney organizers have to make the fans happy as well. Where is the line between the laws of the game and the enjoymet of the spectators?

When the growing popularity of the International 7's circuit starts to diminish I may (repeat, may) feel there is an argument to consider.
Meanwhile I am left with the impression that the crowd in Hong Kong were enjoying themselves??

 

[OB..]

And I agree with you. But tourney organizers have to make the fans happy as well. Where is the line between the laws of the game and the enjoymet of the spectators?

I was giving my view as a spectator. I suspect the fans of the team offended against would support the RC (on that occasion).

 

[JP_Rocks]

I've just finished working there. Flying off to Tokyo this afternoon for the next leg this weekend. A long & tiring 3 days but great fun.

The clock on your TV screen during the games - that's me doing that.

Apart from the YC/RC issue there 2 other notable occurrences:

1. there was a lineout after the hooter and the throw wasn't straight. Ref gave the opposition the lineout/scrum option (I guess based on a "lineout isn't complete" argument). I'd be of the view that he should have gone to half time unless the throw was deliberately not straight to finish the half (in which case PK). Thoughts?

2. Samoa should have been awarded a try late in their final against Canada. A real communication mix up between ref and AR denied them.

Otherwise all pretty good.

Here's an interesting stat: in the pool match England v Samoa it was about 2 minutes into the 2nd half before England completed a successful pass

I was there too- reffed at the HKRFC tens and then did AR/In Goal work during the sevens- did we meet? I was the guy who came over with Danny from North Harbour/NZ.

As a side note, I was the In Goal Judge on the North Stand side during the Samoa v Canada game (incident you referred to happened just outside the South Stand in goal), and could hear the communication breakdown happening in real time. Unfortunately, we had very strict instructions on our roles, responsibilities and protocols, so just had to stand there and watch...

Also, on the non-RC in the final, I reckon the crowd reaction was somewhere between a groan and a boo. We fined the entire team of 5 at the final for missing the 'clearest and most obvious' offence of the weekend, which was reference to the IRB guy's pre-match briefings relying heavily and repeatedly on the phrase 'clear and obvious'...

 

[Robert Burns]

All I'll say is remember Dave Pearson's Yellow card report.

Doesn't matter how experienced you are, you can make mistakes when trying to apply empathy. We've all been there. I certainly have given out yellows for borderline red infringements.

I'm sure they will learn.

As for Bryan, I hope it's not your last outing. Hopefully you'll get a full(er) season of it next year.

 

[Lex Hipkins]

So are we all going to be banned for twelve weeks!!

http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/180834.html

 

[Rassie]

Paddy O Brain the same guy who goes to personally apologize to a certain team at their hotel after publicly criticizing a referee.

 

[Browner]

And I agree with you. But tourney organizers have to make the fans happy as well. Where is the line between the laws of the game and the enjoymet of the spectators?

The Line is simple - Referee to the laws of the game, and all proper fair minded intelligent spectators will understand and appreciate that sometimes these things happen in sport. Those that don't will soon sober up, or start using both eyes to view life !