[Law] Incorrectly taken free kick

Camquin

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Backed up by the definition, my emphasis.

[LAWS]Definitions
Kick: An act made by intentionally hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot, except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee. A kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand, or along the ground.
[/LAWS]
 

crossref


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Who feeds the scrum? How can the IRB mess up this sort of stuff time and time and time again?

it's really annoying isn't it?
prior to 2017 it was ambiguous, and we used to discuss it a lot
in 2017 it became clear: no sanction take it again (but nowhere was change mentioned)
in 2021 now it becomes a scrum (but again nowhere is the change mentioned)
 

Flish


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OK. Let me rephrase. What other requirements has the age group regulations instructed you to ignore? Or is it left up to the referee to pick what is & isn't material?

Up to the ref, specifically “Only infringements that affect the oppositions’ play should be sanctioned.” and we’re also expected to coach the players as well as referee them up to and including U14.

Good example, U14 game two weeks back, torrential rain, proper wring your pants out weather, both teams on occasion knocked on and regathered with no oppo players in front of them for 10+ meters, no material effect, big shout of play on, my choice, we had a good game.

Never with foul play though, in fact no advantage at all.
 

Marc Wakeham


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OK. Let me rephrase. What other requirements has the age group regulations instructed you to ignore? Or is it left up to the referee to pick what is & isn't material?

Very different question.

However, I'm not in RFU land so I can't answer where the RFU allows "ME" to be considered. Of course if you can consider ME then you are ignoring nothing. You may take of immediat action in terms of a sanction but you can play on wit han appropriate word and the next stoppage. So Flish would not be ignoring the situation.
 

madgagoo

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Thanks all, I deliberately didn’t put much detail in my OP to elicit some thoughts.

Context of my game - L8 league game and close, about 15 mins into second half. Free kick was a mark from a cross field kick, he took it quickly and not much defence at home in front of him.

I called him back and gave a scrum to oppo. Funnily enough I’d had a chat with a colleague about incorrectly taken kicks and we’d looked up the ‘new’ sanction.

Major issue was the secondary signal; don’t think there is one, so I went with slapping my knee! ?

Yesterday in a colts game, similar situation - punted from a GLDO and I called them back to take again properly.
 
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smeagol


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Major issue was the secondary signal; don’t think there is one, so I went with slapping my knee!

I've seen imitating a quick tap so that observers see that it stemmed from the tap.
 

TigerCraig


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Age Grade variations are there to encourage positive play, which in turn increases enjoyment at the young level. Then as they get older, more recognisable skills are introduced, such as the tackle, ruck/maul and then scrums and line outs are gradually introduced. Unless you're suggesting that a 4 year old is capable of safely tackling in a game environment.

Plus isn't it always up to the ref to decide what is material?

It's done very differently in Australia
 

Dickie E


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It's done very differently in Australia

Indeed. If I turned a blind eye to an U14 player kneeing a PK or FK, there'd be a parent lynch mob waiting for me.
 

crossref


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Indeed. If I turned a blind eye to an U14 player kneeing a PK or FK, there'd be a parent lynch mob waiting for me.

It's a long time since I reffed u14 but I remember that the parents players and coaches thought pks and fks should be taken properly, but for one reason or another, rightly or wrongly, many of the refs didn't really care

(It was rather like straight put ins in adult game)
 
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Camquin

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National League red v blue, red penalty, the young 9, on loan for saints in his first season at level 3, touches the ball to his boot and run, ref calls him back and gives a scrum to blue.

At half time, I wandered over to watch the thirds (level 9), the red 10 - who has 300+ caps at level 3 or higher - does the same, and gets away with it.

Those are the breaks.

Red won both games comfortably.
 

Dickie E


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Age Grade variations are there to encourage positive play, which in turn increases enjoyment at the young level. Then as they get older, more recognisable skills are introduced, such as the tackle, ruck/maul and then scrums and line outs are gradually introduced. Unless you're suggesting that a 4 year old is capable of safely tackling in a game environment.

Plus isn't it always up to the ref to decide what is material?

not sure how kneeing the ball can be viewed as positive play and increasing enjoyment. And the second or 2 gained by using your knee & not your foot is material IMO.
 

Dickie E


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Backed up by the definition, my emphasis.

[LAWS]Definitions
Kick: An act made by intentionally hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot, except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee. A kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand, or along the ground.
[/LAWS]

Indeed. So, as kneeing is not a kick, kneeing can't be viewed as taking a kick incorrectly. QED
 

TigerCraig


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It's a long time since I reffed u14 but I remember that the parents players and coaches thought pks and fks should be taken properly, but for one reason or another, rightly or wrongly, many of the refs didn't really care

(It was rather like straight put ins in adult game)
I was doing an Under 13 semi final 5 or so years back. Time up, team trailing by 5 had a penalty, took tap incorrectly. I blew it up and called full time. Noone complained.
 

Marc Wakeham


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not sure how kneeing the ball can be viewed as positive play and increasing enjoyment. And the second or 2 gained by using your knee & not your foot is material IMO.

Really? I think you might need to replace your watch if tapping the knee save a second or two.
 

Dickie E


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Very different question.

However, I'm not in RFU land so I can't answer where the RFU allows "ME" to be considered. Of course if you can consider ME then you are ignoring nothing. You may take of immediat action in terms of a sanction but you can play on wit han appropriate word and the next stoppage. So Flish would not be ignoring the situation.

So just for complete clarity because ambiguity doesn't help anyone. Is it just the knee that gets a free pass or can the player touch the ball on their shoulder, elbow, etc and play on under the banner of no ME? Does the ball have to touch anything at all or is a vague wave of the ball in the leg area sufficient?
 

TheBFG


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I was doing an Under 13 semi final 5 or so years back. Time up, team trailing by 5 had a penalty, took tap incorrectly. I blew it up and called full time. Noone complained.

Gotcha :wink:

u13's right :clap:
 

Rich_NL

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It's not correct, but it's not such an affront to rugby values as to need blowing up the first time. A word at the next occasion and then ping if it continues seems fair?
 

crossref


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It's not correct, but it's not such an affront to rugby values as to need blowing up the first time. A word at the next occasion and then ping if it continues seems fair?

do you mean peep, have a word, and let them retake it -- or play on (which may mean a try from it) and have a word at the next one.. if there is a next one ?
 

Stu10

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From my experience refereeing age grade from u9 to u15, a knee tap provides a jump on the opposition and almost always creates frustration and anger from the defending side when a referee lets this happen. Tapping off the knee does provide an advantage, and what reasonable answer can a referee offer when the defending captain complains?

Also, in my experience, inconsistent refereeing and "personal interpretation of the laws" typically leads to frustrated players and an escalation of unruly conduct.
 

crossref


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when I reffed age group - my way of solving this was to make a point of speaking to both coaches before the game, and asking them: have they been coached how to take a quick tap? They would always say "yes" (they could hardly say no! . And I would say 'Great, that's the same for both teams, so I'll be reffing to that"

I'd also tell the captains and 9s. But the coach is most important, as he/she will make sure that is communicated.


ie they DO get a clear warning, but it's before the game starts.
 
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