Is this a first?

[David J.]

It was a 7s tournament. Pretty social. Last Union event of the season. Discipline was lax. Referees were TJing in sandals and visors by the end. There was a women's match were they were all barefoot in gaudy dresses. Maybe 22 teams total. I knew all the other refs there, except one who was on exchange from another union.

It was very sunny and brutally windy. I'd been on the pitch for 5 games in 5 hours already, so my legs were not fresh, but I felt pretty good before kicking off White v Black in the U-19 finals.

White travelling from out of union, Black the home town side. Black was definitely stronger. About 3 minutes in, White takes it into a tackle inside White's 22. The ball came out the side and Black picks and scores. Then, after I blow the whistle, I thought, "That wasn't a tackle, that was a ruck, there were guys over the ball! Damn." White is grumbling a little, but maintain their composure.

Other than that I thought I'd had a good seven minutes. The score was something like 17-5 Black at half time. I blow my whistle to end the first half and go over to the side line to grab some water and talk to my TJ.

A gentleman approaches me and asks, "How long have you been refereeing?"

Well, I'd been refereeing long enough to be wary of that question.
I look at his jacket, it says "Referee" on one side, and the badge of White's home referee union on the other, the exchange referee, so I'm not sure what's going to happen next.

"Why do you ask?" I say.

"Because you're a terrible referee. I've never seen a referee as bad as you."

"What? Go. get off my field. Get out of my playing enclosure. Now." No movement. Whistle followed by, "Go." And he left.

I was flabbergasted and pissed for the rest of the game, which actually gave me an adrenaline rush to really finish the game strong.

Black won, 38-12.

Has anyone ever red carded another referee?

 

[SimonSmith]

ooh. Uncool.
you may want to think about escalating that or not. That was unacceptable.

 

[Jacko]

"Long enough to realise that you shouldn't be here right now, and there's only one person who's going to look bad if this conversation escalates"...

 

[Phil E]

That's unforgivable. I (try to) never, ever criticise another ref, no matter how good or bad he is.

Even if you were bad (and I am not for one second suggesting you were) that is totally unprofessional.

Alway be wary of people in blazers!

Nice answer from Jacko :biggrin:

 

[OB..]

I (try to) never, ever criticise another ref, no matter how good or bad he is.

Well, not in public, anyway.

Unless he is on TV. (See various threads on here.)

 

[Phil E]

Well, not in public, anyway.

Unless he is on TV. (See various threads on here.)

Yes, I meant from the touchline.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Well handled David J and I would have looked for him in the bar and told him to his face i was going to report him whether i was or not.

 

[stuart3826]

I had a similar incident at an 11'2 & 12's tournament tis season - same sort of thing, another person "claiming" to be a ref demanding why I'd made a decision during the first half and informing me that I was the worst effing referee he'd ever seen. My response was "If you're a referee then you should know better than to swear at me. Get off my pitch before I have you removed from the tournament"

Makes my blood boil. At a GP match where I was 4th Official, I've been asked by a spectator what I thought of the ref, and I simply say that I'm not in a position to comment. Good or bad, I will not be seen badmouthing another ref.

 

[Ian_Cook]

One referee, in his Number Ones, criticising another referee on the sideline during a match?

You were right to RC him. That is also a suspension in my book.

I would have taken it further and made a formal complaint. It may have been a low key season wind up type affair, but that's no excuse.

 

[Dixie]

Agreed, totally unacceptable. I was at a tournament over the weekend, where we reffed in pairs and rotated pitches (and thus pools) after four games. As my coleague and I waited for the 4th game on the adjacent pitch to finish, the ref blew for a forward pass, with the recipient well away to score the winning try. The attacking coach briefly vented his frustration relatively mildly, then turned and appealed to us - that was never forward, was it Sir? We both smiled and said as one: Clearly Forward - good call. Once the coach moved away, my colleague turned to me and said: actually, I thought it was a yard backwards. I agreed.

Was this honourable or dishonourable behaviour on our part?

 

[OB..]

Dixie - I wonder if that was relativity in action? The referee was running (presumably) and you were not (ditto), so it looked different to him.

 

[Simon Thomas]

I was #4 again this weekend, this time at the Hampshire v Herts County match.

I (and both TJ ARs) was constantly asked by both coaching teams to explain referee's decisions & interpretations.

I (and they) met all with a blank smile, until towards the end (with Herts well ahead and the game well and truly won), I asked them all to shut up.

I know the Hants coaches well, and I used to play against the Herts Manager and the Coach and I have met before. All very friendly conversation etc, but they were a bit shocked.

Afterwards in the bar we had a good chat about why I had asked them shut up - they really didn't know or realise that they were keeping a constant stream of questions (a lot is due to nervous energy). They were also quite suprised when I explained how TJs are briefed (they though TJs had total referee powers on the line) and that neither the TJs or a 4th official would be criticial or disagree with that match's referee. They said players and coaches and coaches are always critical of both the opposition and their own side, so why shouldn't we be ! An interesting perspective.

My view is that I give all my colleagues (Elite, Society, Club or volunteer on the day) the same respect and lack of any public criticism I would expect from them, and ensure the referee's integrity and credibility is not compromised.

 

[Dickie E]

My view is that I give all my colleagues (Elite, Society, Club or volunteer on the day) the same respect and lack of any public criticism I would expect from them, and ensure the referee's integrity and credibility is not compromised.

Unless it's Kaplan awarding the winning try in extra time to the ABs against the Wallabies. Surely this is deserving of special consideration?

 

[Simon Thomas]

For me any IRB appointed professional referee is fair game for all !

 

[ExHookah]

I'm with Simon T in his approach when on duty. You don't comment on performance, decisions etc. I would say that if a coach or replacement asked for a clarification on a penalty decision etc. I don't have a problem answering it briefly, if the match is in a phase where I'm free to answer him.

With Dixie and his colleague, I don't think there's a problem making an observation like that between two referees in a private discussion. You're not criticizing the ref or undermining him in that format, simply comparing points of view between two experienced officials who had a different line of sight. Obviously comments like that are made quietly to each other and not loudly enough that the layman can overhear it.

 

[SimonSmith]

The answer usually begins "well Coach, according the signal the ref gave, it was for....."

 

[ExHookah]

The answer usually begins "well Coach, according the signal the ref gave, it was for....."

Absolutely. If there is ever an opportunity to highlight the fact that a player, coach, or spectator has either not paid attention to the signals, or is not informed enough to understand the signals, then it's worth taking the exact approach that SS is suggesting.

Result possibility 1 - Questioner pays more attention to signals that they should be watching.
Result possibility 2 - Questioner asks more questions (not necessarily of you) to further understand signals that they don't understand even when they are shown in front of them.
Result possibility 3 - Questioner dismisses you as a ******, and those people can rarely be helped, and are rarely worth the effort.

 

[Account Deleted]

At a game any comment from a "ref" on the touchline however well intentioned will be used as a "soundbite".

So "from here it looked a little forward but he called it from his angle" Become "that ref over there said it was a bad call!" So a polite answer "he gave a forward pass" or whatever is as committed as you need be.

Should be be immune from the same sort off assessment as players after the game? Why should we be? Players are "assessed" but people who can't play the game by jurnos and some of us who were possibly poor players. so why should we free of the same assessment?

As with all comments you give them the weighting the "commentator" warrants.