Is this a ruck?

[Akira Nonaka]

This is a clip from Japan league one. My impression is this is not ruck since no red player is standing and contesting the ball. So the blue player can pick up the ball and go. The actual decision was the blue player who picked up the ball was considered offside and the try was declined after the TMO.

 

[Dickie E]

I agree with you that that isn't a ruck but it is certainly a tackle.

A player who picks up the ball at a tackle needs to have feet behind the ball and not reach backwards to pick up the ball.

 

[Balones]

Agree with Dickie, no ruck. Does it need both feet behind the ball for a pick-up? I could agree with the TMO. Close decision. Who touched the ball first? S/H or picking up player?
(A pedant would tell you that strictly speaking it was a maul just before it went to ground but because it was a dynamic situation it isn’t refereed as such nowadays.)

 

[Akira Nonaka]

A player who picks up the ball at a tackle needs to have feet behind the ball and not reach backwards to pick up the ball.

Ops! I was not aware of this. Is this written in the law? I read chapter "14 Tackle" but could not find it.

 

[Balones]

Ops! I was not aware of this. Is this written in the law? I read chapter "14 Tackle" but could not find it.

That’s the problem. It isn’t. It’s just something that seems to have come through our unions or World Rugby, but I must admit I can’t find reference to it as I write. Just dashing out to do some assessing! Will try again later.

 

[Stu10]

I agree with you that that isn't a ruck but it is certainly a tackle.

A player who picks up the ball at a tackle needs to have feet behind the ball and not reach backwards to pick up the ball.

Is this the same at a ruck? I must admit to being uncertain around players in the ruck picking up and going straight through the hole... I realise they must unbind before the pickup, but not sure about reaching back. I assume also that it's an offence if someone behind them has first touched the ball?

 

[Dickie E]

Is this the same at a ruck? I must admit to being uncertain around players in the ruck picking up and going straight through the hole... I realise they must unbind before the pickup, but not sure about reaching back. I assume also that it's an offence if someone behind them has first touched the ball?

if its a ruck, one foot behind ball. If it's a tackle, both feet behind ball. This is irrespective of someone behind them touching the ball.

 

[didds]

which of course is not how one has been coached for decades (and coaches have been coach as how to coach etc) as to how to pick up a ball on the ground when in full tilt running - one stoops as one approaches, then puts one foot adjacent/just in front of the ball, then picks ball up ie straddling the ball for balance (nothing more than that)

hey ho.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

That’s the problem. It isn’t. It’s just something that seems to have come through our unions or World Rugby, but I must admit I can’t find reference to it as I write. Just dashing out to do some assessing! Will try again later.

Law 14.8.c and 14.10 seem to cover it.

The former says: "Other players MUST c. Arrive at the tackle from the direction of their own goal line before playing the ball."

 

[Volun-selected]

Interesting about the scoring player (#4?) being pinged for offside. To me, blue 4 scores legally in that he was at the back of the tackle but released before coming in from the back (and is the only player on their feet) and he goes over the ball and he sets the offside lines. He is then legally over the ball and plays it.

However, now we have offside lines the blue loosehead is totally on the wrong side and doesn’t exactly seem to be in a hurry to get out the way. If I was going to ping anyone it would have been for #1 not getting out the way, not offside on the scorer.

I guess the advantage of the TMO is you can go back to see if, as @Balones noted, blue 9 touches first and puts 4 in front of a played ball.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

He must comply with the law I quoted.

 

[Akira Nonaka]

if its a ruck, one foot behind ball. If it's a tackle, both feet behind ball.

Can I know where did you get this information?

 

[Dickie E]

Can I know where did you get this information?

it appears in the Australian GMGs which may or may not apply in your location:

At a tackle, a player can pick up the ball if one foot is level with or behind the ball. At a ruck, a player can pick up the ball
if both feet are level with or behind the ball. If a player is still bound with an opponent, then they cannot pick up the ball.

 

[Akira Nonaka]

it appears in the Australian GMGs which may or may not apply in your location:

At a tackle, a player can pick up the ball if one foot is level with or behind the ball. At a ruck, a player can pick up the ball
if both feet are level with or behind the ball. If a player is still bound with an opponent, then they cannot pick up the ball.

Thanks! I could download it.

 

[chbg]

So it is a, very fair, interpretation of the slightly opaque laws.

 

[Phil E]

It looks to me like you don't have a ruck, but you do have a tackle with offside lines.
The scoring player is therefore offside and can't play the ball.

 

[Stu10]

if its a ruck, one foot behind ball. If it's a tackle, both feet behind ball. This is irrespective of someone behind them touching the ball.

it appears in the Australian GMGs which may or may not apply in your location:

At a tackle, a player can pick up the ball if one foot is level with or behind the ball. At a ruck, a player can pick up the ball
if both feet are level with or behind the ball. If a player is still bound with an opponent, then they cannot pick up the ball.

I'm going to assume you got it mixed up in your first post

I think the player in the video was harshly denied a try. I don't think there was a ruck because no engagement by a red player on feet over the tackle.

Immediately after the ball carrier was taken to ground, blue 4 arrived from the direction of his own goal line. Then blue 4 becomes an "other" player in the tackle (law 14.4.c.ii, Player(s) who arrive to contest possession in the tackle), and he complies with all the requirements of law 14.8 (below).

He is not bound to any other player and his right foot is level/behind the ball when he picks up, which is allowed according the Australian GMGs.

Should be a try. The only possible issue might be that the scrum half, behind blue 4, touched the ball before he picked up, but Dickie has said that does not matter (correct?).

1. Other players must:
   1. Remain on their feet and release the ball and the ball-carrier immediately.
   2. Remain on their feet when they play the ball.
   3. Arrive at the tackle from the direction of their own goal line before playing the ball.
   4. Not play the ball or attempt to tackle an opponent while on the ground near the tackle.
      Sanction: Penalty.

 

[Phil E]

He is not bound to any other player and his right foot is level/behind the ball when he picks up, which is allowed according the Australian GMGs.

Which only apply in Australia

 

[Locke]

Any insight on why Australia or any country would add that to their GMGs when it is not found in law?

 

[Jarrod Burton]

Any insight on why Australia or any country would add that to their GMGs when it is not found in law?

For Clarification and consistency of interpretation of a grey area across the country. Plenty of things in the GMG aren't written in the law book, but they do assist in maintaining (as much as possible) a consistent approach to the law set and allows coaches to better understand what we are looking for.