Italy-USA

[Aphrodite007]

Thought Clancy was poor. Missed a few infringements in the run up to scores and seemed to be frequently getting in the way as well! T

 

[DrSTU]

I hate this current trend of international refs to try and dart between the defensive line to get into position; thus opening up a hole for the attackers to have a go at.

I thought he was poor in general and his management and control of the initial scrums particularly poor.

Credit where due, it was a good game by both teams although I would have liked to see less players of their feet from both sides and less of the Italian flop over the ball in the tackle.

 

[Mike Whittaker]

Not the best from Mr Clancy today - I am sure he will be disappointed with the way the scrums remained a bit of a mess.

Suspect he may be going home soon...

 

[Aphrodite007]

Another thing that annoyed me was when a USA player shouted 'every f***ing time' after he got penalised- Clancy did nothing and then said at the next stoppage 'If you say that again I'll have to card you' (or something similar). Surely that was the perfect chance to march everyone back 10? His game control was really lacking I thought- the scrums were a mess by the end.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Not the best from Mr Clancy today - I am sure he will be disappointed with the way the scrums remained a bit of a mess.

Suspect he may be going home soon...

I was behind the in-goal where that series of scrums took place and had a perfect view. It was a virtual carbon copy of San Siro in 2009, and Clancy was making the same mistakes that Dickinson did.

It was clear and obvious what was happening. The Italian THP was NOT driving straight. He was driving inwards towards the American hooker and upwards to lift him off his feet. When Clancy stopped after several scrums and gave his warning to the American front row, Todd Clever the American captain was clearly heard to say "Have a look at the angle of that prop", and he was right. If the rest of us can see this, why can't an experienced IRB referee see it?

I have no problem with the PT however, because on that occasion, the Italians did push dead straight (the direction of the skid marks on the grass was a clear indication), and when the American front row folded, Clancy did the right thing going under the posts. You do have to wonder though, how much the previous series of scrums took out of the American pack.

Overall, his performance was well below par. His positioning was poor, and he was continually in the way of the players, but this is nothing new. I maintain that NH elite referees stand too close to the breakdown, and his means not only do they risk affecting the play by getting in the way of players, but it also makes them "target fixated", and they end up focused in what is right in front of them, and missing the peripheral stuff. such as offsides.

 

[voice of reason]

My view on Castrogiovanni's Try - held & on his knees for 3 "steps" before planting the ball. PK to US
Any others see that the same way or was it a case of his momentum taking him over?

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/rugbytracker/match=11217/video.html?v=2055206
2:16 into the video -

Clancy looking directly at the action

 

[Ian_Cook]

My view on Castrogiovanni's Try - held & on his knees for 3 "steps" before planting the ball. PK to US
Any others see that the same way or was it a case of his momentum taking him over?

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/rugbytracker/match=11217/video.html?v=2055206
2:16 into the video -

Clancy looking directly at the action

Marginal. He definitely looked like he continued to go forward on his knees, but there was a fair bit of momentum there too (he's a big lad and I imagine difficult to stop).

I have no problem either way, if a referee wants to allow that or disallow that.

 

[Davet]

Castro went to his knees for a moment then straightened his legs and drove over.

Technically iffy, but I suspect most refs would have given him benefit of any slight doubt.

 

[Account Deleted]

Pretty immediate for me.

Clancy? Just a typical display that we are used to from him in the "Pro 12 Mankey Cider All Celts together HEC qualification (play offs to follow") league.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Really bad decision when he clearly impeded USA Defence and Italian shot through a gap. How could he not blow up for that,
Happens from time to time to all of us, "sorry Lads, I'm in the way scrum attack"

 

[Robert Burns]

My view on Castrogiovanni's Try - held & on his knees for 3 "steps" before planting the ball. PK to US
Any others see that the same way or was it a case of his momentum taking him over?

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/rugbytracker/match=11217/video.html?v=2055206
2:16 into the video -

Clancy looking directly at the action

I'd have probably allowed it.

 

[Davet]

Really bad decision when he clearly impeded USA Defence and Italian shot through a gap. How could he not blow up for that,
Happens from time to time to all of us, "sorry Lads, I'm in the way scrum attack"

He didn't blow up because he had no reason to.

Law only allows him to do do if the ball or ball carrier makes contact with him to the disadvantage of the opposition.

No contact, no legal reason to stop play.

Assessment of referee positioning however would be less than complimentary.

 

[Account Deleted]

Really bad decision when he clearly impeded USA Defence and Italian shot through a gap. How could he not blow up for that,
Happens from time to time to all of us, "sorry Lads, I'm in the way scrum attack"

Not justified in law. No contact with the ball carrier or the ball.

 

[ChrisR]

Clancy fell into the trap of assuming that the scrum going backwards is always at fault in a collapse. McDonald had a tough day with Castrogiovanni but was not as often at fault as Clancy called.

Why do Italy drive in their own half? Simple, drive then drop the scrum and get the PK. With Clancy it was an automatic, even when he was in no position to call it. Get the PK then the lineout deep in the US half. This was a no-brainer. And Clancy got no help on this from the ARs.

OK, so I'm clearly biased but it dosn't make me wrong.

 

[ChrisR]

And while I'm at it ....

At 50 mins Perugini gets replaced.

At 70 mins Castrogiovanni gets replaced by .... Perugini!

Hold on, where is the 5th front rower?

 

[Davet]

Do they need one at Internationals?

 

[OB..]

Do they need one at Internationals?

Yes, but 3.12 (a) Exception (2) does not say the substituted payer can only return if all other FR substitutes have been used. That may be recognition of the fact that LH and TH are different positions.

 

[AiseaT39]

I think that Mr. Clancy's management of the scrum was his worse although he was poor all around. Toward the end of the second half he reset the scrum three times when Clever finally said something about Italy's #3 angle. All the scrummaging before that, not only the Italian #3 drives inward, they also drive before the ball is in. PK against Italian #3 for not going in straigt or FK against the Italian pack for driving too early.

Mr. Clancy has all the chances to make the correct call but he ends up penalizing the US everytime.

Do you think that this is typical with the top referees to keep penalinzing and/or giving heavy attention to the weaker scrum allowing the stronger scrum to get away with a lot of illegal stuff?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Yes, but 3.12 (a) Exception (2) does not say the substituted payer can only return if all other FR substitutes have been used. That may be recognition of the fact that LH and TH are different positions.

Yes.

I was listening to an interview with Wyatt Crockett last night, and he had some very interesting things to say

Firstly, the roles of THP and LHP have become more specialised in the last few years, to the point that it is now very difficult for one player to learn both sides and be adequate. I can see the possibility that one of the Law changes that will come in after the RWC will be an increase in the bench from 7 to 8, and teams will be required to have a specialist THP and LHP on the bench.

Secondly, he confirmed what we all know, that the tight jerseys are very difficult to grip for the binding. He said you get one go at it when the ref says "engage", and if you miss the first time, the surface is so smooth that your hand slides over the surface and no folds come up so its impossible to regain your bind. This is especially so for the LHP if the THP grabs his upper arm. I hate to say this (chopper are you listening?) but he advocates that a prop who slips the bind like this be allowed to drop his hand to the ground to steady himself, and then come up for a second attempt.

 

[ChrisR]

Still steaming ... ... and maybe a bit of :deadhorse: .. but ...

if a referee penalizes a team every time a scrum goes down he's gonna get gamed!