[Law] Jumping or Diving Clarification required

[crossref]

a jump is where you are endeavouring to land on your feet
a dive for a try is when you are endeavouring to land on your forearms, with the ball touching the ground before you do .

So May was diving.

Jumps are inherently dangerous, so we PK them all.

Dives are not , so normally going to be allowed :

Caveat if for some reason a particular, specific dive is dangerous, then it's dangerous, ping it.

Was May's specific dive two weeks go actually dangerous - well probably not.



** I am troubled by captain marvel's clear no arms tackling technique, which WB seems to miss completely.

 

[Flish]

I think I’m going to stick to my original thoughts, if it looks dangerous I’ll ping it. As WB confirmed there’s no basis in law for pinging a jump by default, it’s the danger that’s the trigger, so doesn’t really matter if it’s a jump, a dive, or somewhere in between

 

[Dickie E]

Jumps are inherently dangerous, so we PK them all.

when you say 'we', who do you mean and on what authority?

 

[Dickie E]

I think I’m going to stick to my original thoughts, if it looks dangerous I’ll ping it. As WB confirmed there’s no basis in law for pinging a jump by default, it’s the danger that’s the trigger, so doesn’t really matter if it’s a jump, a dive, or somewhere in between

agree

 

[crossref]

when you say 'we', who do you mean and on what authority?

well, here's one authority - the take from SA Referees :
- first they offer definitions of diving and jumping
- then they decide that May's was a jump
- therefore they penalise it.

https://www.sareferees.com/laws/view/2831539/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Which is basically what NO and WB said

 

[Jz558]

The difficulty with over defining this is that you may not like the results. Looking at the replay it seems to me that at no point do May's legs lead his head and arms (as defined in the article as a dive) and also at the highest point of the trajectory his body is horizontal to the ground (as defined in the article as a dive) albeit he is athwartship rather than the more traditional fore and aft. On balance I'd prefer to make the judgement on whether or not the action is dangerous and act accordingly.

 

[crossref]

The difficulty with over defining this is that you may not like the results. Looking at the replay it seems to me that at no point do May's legs lead his head and arms (as defined in the article as a dive) and also at the highest point of the trajectory his body is horizontal to the ground (as defined in the article as a dive) albeit he is athwartship rather than the more traditional fore and aft. On balance I'd prefer to make the judgement on whether or not the action is dangerous and act accordingly.

I sort of agree - but the direction that WR are going in general is the reverse - decision trees / logic diagrams (as in high tackles, collisions in the air etc) .

the SAREFs response, and WB and NO videos suggest to me there's a framework being established here. Jumping bad, diving likely OK

 

[Camquin]

I have nothing against decision trees - but can we have them in the law book not in a secret folder in a filing cabinet marked beware of the leopard.
As a backswood referee without team of three, let alone a replay they are possibly less useful but do clarify the train of thought.

 

[crossref]

agreed. So much is different in the community game.

happily it works both ways : the players know that you are on your own and can't see absolutely everything and are more tolerant of didn't-see-it errors .

(perhaps after a moment of reflection, at least )

 

[KoolFork]

Everyone seems to be fairly blase about the tackling a player off his feet law. Surely a clarification that tackling a player off his feet in an attempt to ground the ball (or whatever) would help? I imagine many referees would penalise the tackler if they took out a player in the air.

 

[Phil E]

Everyone seems to be fairly blase about the tackling a player off his feet law. Surely a clarification that tackling a player off his feet in an attempt to ground the ball (or whatever) would help? I imagine many referees would penalise the tackler if they took out a player in the air.

When you run both feet are off the ground most of the time. Does that mean you can't be tackled while running?

A little common sense is needed.

 

[KoolFork]

I'm not talking about running in open play (both feet off the ground at some point is more or less the definition of running), but the specific instance when 'leaping' to score.

 

[OB..]

I'm not talking about running in open play (both feet off the ground at some point is more or less the definition of running), but the specific instance when 'leaping' to score.

Why do you think diving to score is sufficiently dangerous to need banning?

 

[KoolFork]

I don't. The clarification I would like to see is that it is OK to tackle a player who is diving to score, ie a specific instance where tackling a player in the air is permitted.

Or some other way of achieving the same end, eg by clarifying that a player in the air is one jumping to catch a ball.

 

[OB..]

Many people have pointed out that running involves having both feet off the ground at times. The problem is defining the circumstances when the action should be penalised without leaving it too vague eg "when it is dangerous", or having to list too many specific situations, such as jumping to avoid a tackle.

 

[crossref]

Perhaps the difference is
.. a player who leaps into the air to gain possession of a ball
(Cannot be tackled)
.. a player, in possession of the ball, who leaps into the air with it
(Can be tackled)

Does that work, or normally work as a good rule of thunb

 

[Phil E]

Perhaps the difference is
.. a player who leaps into the air to gain possession of a ball
(Cannot be tackled)
.. a player, in possession of the ball, who leaps into the air with it
(Can be tackled)

Does that work, or normally work as a good rule of thunb

Would that lead to people leaping in the air to receive a pass (gain possession of the ball), in order to draw a penalty or avoid being tackled?

 

[crossref]

Would that lead to people leaping in the air to receive a pass (gain possession of the ball), in order to draw a penalty or avoid being tackled?

Yes, I have wondered sometimes if this is already happening

 

[Phil E]

Yes, I have wondered sometimes if this is already happening

I have only ever seen it penalised once, I think it was an England match a year or so ago?

 

[didds]

I have only ever seen it penalised once, I think it was an England match a year or so ago?

NZ v BL as well ?