RobLev
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True; but he is not allowed intentionally to drop the ball forward onto his kneee.
[Law] Knock-on question
- Thread starter Lewis Tough
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True; but he is not allowed intentionally to drop the ball forward onto his kneee.
ChrisR
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Is he? Please make a case for that.
didds
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scanrio: ball kicked ahead and a foot race to the ball to score against a defender
the bal;l bobbles around and as the attacker reaches it it is a foot or so above the ground with the defender very close
the attacker knees the ball forwards as its too low to gather with thye defender so close and too high to kick with tye foot.
Call?
didds
the bal;l bobbles around and as the attacker reaches it it is a foot or so above the ground with the defender very close
the attacker knees the ball forwards as its too low to gather with thye defender so close and too high to kick with tye foot.
Call?
didds
ChrisR
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Yes, that scenario is legit. But running with the ball in hand and bouncing it off the knee to pop it over a defender?
I think there is a case for it being legal but I'm 99% sure that it wouldn't fly in a game.
I think there is a case for it being legal but I'm 99% sure that it wouldn't fly in a game.
Clarification 10 of 2004[LAWS][FONT=fs_blakeregular]By definition [/FONT]'A kick is made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot, except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee…'. In the case described the ball has not been kicked but has been dropped onto the thigh and this is ruled as a knock-on or throw forward.[/LAWS]
if that's the case, then it follows he is not allowed intentionally to drop the ball forward onto his foot.
ah just read OB post #25 -- which points to clarifiaction 10 of 2004 - - which does indeed address this
[LAWS]Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
Ruling10-2004
Union / HP Ref ManagerWRU
Law Reference19,21
Date24 December 2004
Request
The WRU has requested a ruling with regard Law 19-Touch & line-out and Law 21 Penalty and Free Kicks
(1) A player of the attacking team kicks the ball indirectly into touch just outside the defenders 22 metre area. A defender gathers the ball, runs a few metres (still in touch) to a place behind his 22 metre line where he throws the ball straight infield. He gathers it and kicks direct to touch. What is the correct decision?
(2) A player in possession of the ball drops it onto his thigh and propels it forward. What is the correct decision?
Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
(1) The defender is allowed to take the quick line-out in the manner specified. A line-out at the place where the ball went into touch from the defenders kick is the correct decision.
(2) If this occurred in general play the following would apply. By definition 'A kick is made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot, except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee…'. In the case described the ball has not been kicked but has been dropped onto the thigh and this is ruled as a knock-on or throw forward. If the action as described was taken by a player after his team had been awarded a penalty kick or free kick, then a PK or FK has not been correctly taken. Under Law 21.3(b) bouncing the ball on the thigh can in this case be taken to include the knee as this is also in the definition above. Thus, the player has infringed this Law and a scrum to the opposing team should be ordered.[/LAWS]
so there we are.
[LAWS]Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
Ruling10-2004
Union / HP Ref ManagerWRU
Law Reference19,21
Date24 December 2004
Request
The WRU has requested a ruling with regard Law 19-Touch & line-out and Law 21 Penalty and Free Kicks
(1) A player of the attacking team kicks the ball indirectly into touch just outside the defenders 22 metre area. A defender gathers the ball, runs a few metres (still in touch) to a place behind his 22 metre line where he throws the ball straight infield. He gathers it and kicks direct to touch. What is the correct decision?
(2) A player in possession of the ball drops it onto his thigh and propels it forward. What is the correct decision?
Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
(1) The defender is allowed to take the quick line-out in the manner specified. A line-out at the place where the ball went into touch from the defenders kick is the correct decision.
(2) If this occurred in general play the following would apply. By definition 'A kick is made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot, except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee…'. In the case described the ball has not been kicked but has been dropped onto the thigh and this is ruled as a knock-on or throw forward. If the action as described was taken by a player after his team had been awarded a penalty kick or free kick, then a PK or FK has not been correctly taken. Under Law 21.3(b) bouncing the ball on the thigh can in this case be taken to include the knee as this is also in the definition above. Thus, the player has infringed this Law and a scrum to the opposing team should be ordered.[/LAWS]
so there we are.
I have pointed out several times previously that this is indeed the leqalistic position. However sensible interpretation of the laws says that since a kick forward is clearly legal, we must allow the throw to be forward in that particular case.. For the knee-kick we have a specific ruling.
I stand by my view that we should look to make sense of the laws as a whole, despite potential problems with the wording.
Pegleg
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That would not be allowed on my watch.
IIRC the Clarification was intended to deal with precisely that scenario. The advantage of the knee-kick is that is can be done much later than a regular kick; the disadvantage is that you are likely to be bringing your knee up fast just as a player tries to tackle you. It was a matter of safety rather than just a technicality.