Ladies match
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Ask if she's comfortable with the touch would be my suggestion
Dickie E
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Not during the game, anyway
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No. But I don't think that means that we shouldn't ask.
Pegleg
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Spoke to some ladies after my game yesterday, they had been playing on the pitch alongside my game. They were universally of the opinion that the directive is a tap on the shoulder or a "thumbs up" if the referee is on the other side of the scrum. They could not see the fuss. "Ref tells us what he's going to do".
I think this is one of those daft "PC" issues that people dream up without consulting those really involved.
I think this is one of those daft "PC" issues that people dream up without consulting those really involved.
I reckon that most rugby players, male or female, other things being equal would have a preference to NOT be tapped on the back by the referee at all.
No it's not a big deal, but IMO this touching of the scrum half is simply a bad idea : more sensible to maintain a personal space between refs and players. In general terms you wouldn't like players to be tapping you.
the old verbal command was better.
No it's not a big deal, but IMO this touching of the scrum half is simply a bad idea : more sensible to maintain a personal space between refs and players. In general terms you wouldn't like players to be tapping you.
the old verbal command was better.
didds
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I can see that the tap aty least means the oppo aren't forewarned as to ball entry, maintaining the old status quo etc.
Its not a biggy IMO, but I do see CR's point which has some validity.
It seems endemic at the highest levels that the scrum is nhow just a penalty machine. despite WRs variuous efforts to depower the hit (which has generally worked() it now a case of digging in and trying to disrupt the oppo into giving away a PK. I'm delighted that England's scrummage so far in the 6N has actually looked like one, but now they seem to have sorted it it is again just a way to win penalties.
didds
Its not a biggy IMO, but I do see CR's point which has some validity.
It seems endemic at the highest levels that the scrum is nhow just a penalty machine. despite WRs variuous efforts to depower the hit (which has generally worked() it now a case of digging in and trying to disrupt the oppo into giving away a PK. I'm delighted that England's scrummage so far in the 6N has actually looked like one, but now they seem to have sorted it it is again just a way to win penalties.
didds
a lot of the time the oppo scrum half provides the timing anyway...
'ball coming' when the ref makes the tap
'ball in' when the ball comes in
Pegleg
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Have you asked players what they prefer? I've not experienced any player with a problem. For cying ot loud they have players touching them as part of the game all the time. A simple tap on the shoulder? Let's all "man up".
as I say: I don't think anyone would consider this a big deal, but generally speaking better for refs and players to treat each other courteously and NOT to tap each other.
Generally speaking tapping someone is (mildly) confrontational, and is a power play: the powerful tap the powerless and not vica versa.
You wouldn't want players routinely tapping you, would you?
Or, in a situation where a player has become very steamed up already, and struggling to keep control of himself, and you were having a 'word' with him to wanr him to calm down ..... you'd NEVER tap him on the chest to reinforce your point, would you?
Generally speaking tapping someone is (mildly) confrontational, and is a power play: the powerful tap the powerless and not vica versa.
You wouldn't want players routinely tapping you, would you?
Or, in a situation where a player has become very steamed up already, and struggling to keep control of himself, and you were having a 'word' with him to wanr him to calm down ..... you'd NEVER tap him on the chest to reinforce your point, would you?
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Yes. That's exactly the phrase I'll use in the Women's games I do. Surefire winner.
I think it's a simple courtesy and helps establish a good dynamic with the teams - ie I'm not an overbearing patriarchal ******.
Pegleg
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Alternatively the women are unlikely to make an issue of it as they will, in my experience, not expect to be trerated differently to the men.
Or in other words they just get on with the game without fuss thay you are creating.
Do you afford the men the same respect to "help establish a good dynamic with the teams"? I treat both men and women the same, as equals, thus avoiding being sexist.
Or in other words they just get on with the game without fuss thay you are creating.
Do you afford the men the same respect to "help establish a good dynamic with the teams"? I treat both men and women the same, as equals, thus avoiding being sexist.
Pegleg
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The tap is proscribed in the guidlines. The players know that. Have you ever had a situation where a player has had a problem with it?
Can you give one situation where it would be remotely possible to justify a player tapping you "routinely"? I can't.
Why would you touch a player in a "discipline" situation?
The situations are totally different.
As Phil asks. Are you sure you're not trolling now?
sigh, I'm not sure why my point is so difficult to understand.
I'll try just one more time
background -
1 in life it's not polite to tap people when issuing an instruction, if you do, it pisses people off
2 in life especially if someone is steamed up / angry / upset / in a confrontation / emotional it's DEFINITELY a bad idea to tap them when issuing an instruction
surely everyone would agree with that ?
So... I think it was a mistake for IRB to introduce a protocol where referees deliver an instruction to players by tapping them.
Especially as a rugby pitch is a place we were do - from time to time - encounter players who are steamed up / emotional / confrontational
that's all.
It's not a biggie, no, but all the same it's a mistake
- there's no upside to it (for team that wants an audible warning the SH just gives a shout anyway)
- but there's a small downside.
** No, it's never been a problem to me, and
** no it's not a big deal ---
But seeing as the thread opened up the subject of the tap - indeed worrying if some players mind being tapped - my 2p worth is that it's a poor protocol, and not commensurate with the way refs normally want to deal with players, which is to be calm and courteous.
IMO a verbal or visual signal would have been a better choice of protocol, than tapping -- that's all.
I'll try just one more time
background -
1 in life it's not polite to tap people when issuing an instruction, if you do, it pisses people off
2 in life especially if someone is steamed up / angry / upset / in a confrontation / emotional it's DEFINITELY a bad idea to tap them when issuing an instruction
surely everyone would agree with that ?
So... I think it was a mistake for IRB to introduce a protocol where referees deliver an instruction to players by tapping them.
Especially as a rugby pitch is a place we were do - from time to time - encounter players who are steamed up / emotional / confrontational
that's all.
It's not a biggie, no, but all the same it's a mistake
- there's no upside to it (for team that wants an audible warning the SH just gives a shout anyway)
- but there's a small downside.
** No, it's never been a problem to me, and
** no it's not a big deal ---
But seeing as the thread opened up the subject of the tap - indeed worrying if some players mind being tapped - my 2p worth is that it's a poor protocol, and not commensurate with the way refs normally want to deal with players, which is to be calm and courteous.
IMO a verbal or visual signal would have been a better choice of protocol, than tapping -- that's all.
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Wert Twacky
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1 in life it's not polite to tap people when issuing an instruction, if you do, it pisses people off. A polite tap??
2 in life especially if someone is steamed up / angry / upset / in a confrontation / emotional it's DEFINITELY a bad idea to tap them when issuing an instruction
surely everyone would agree with that ? No, they wouldn't.
Never had any issue with tapping (politely) a SH in any game or have I ever seen this be a problem.
2 in life especially if someone is steamed up / angry / upset / in a confrontation / emotional it's DEFINITELY a bad idea to tap them when issuing an instruction
surely everyone would agree with that ? No, they wouldn't.
Never had any issue with tapping (politely) a SH in any game or have I ever seen this be a problem.