Last Play of the Game

[Guyseep]

Very competitive high school senior game, Blue vs White. The score is 28-24 for White. White is penalized for side entry into the ruck, inside the Blue 22.
Blue asks for the time and after a quick look at the watch I see it is less than a minute left and say "Less than a minute". The actual time was likely 40-30 seconds left. I am concerned with setting the mark and making sure white gets back 10m, expecting that Blue is going to tap and go.

Blue takes a while to decide whether they are going to run it or kick for touch and try and win a lineout. In the time they take to do this, time expires and they kick for touch. I look at my watch and see we are over time and blow the whistle for the end of the game.

Obviously Blue isn't happy, and insist that I must tell them it's the last play of the game. If they had kicked for touch fairly quickly there would have been time for the lineout.

Thoughts? Are we required to give the teams an indication that they likely only have time to run one play? Do we have to give the time to the second?

 

[mark.lucas]

I'd have done exactly what you did. They had all the information they needed to make a decision - and the first one was that they needed to do something quickly.

 

[chbg]

Are we required to give the teams an indication that they likely only have time to run one play? Do we have to give the time to the second?

Absolutely no requirement to do so. I will only say that it is the last play AFTER time is up.

If the team in the lead were taking 30-40 seconds to decide what to do at a PK, would you penalise them for time wasting? Possibly stop the clock and warn them? Perhaps you should do similar for the other team, even if they are constraining themselves? Or are they ensuring that they get a bonus losing point for being less than 7 points down?

Finally, in retrospect was "less than a minute" sufficient information? Would you have felt peeved if you were playing? Obviously it is entirely their fault, but it is human nature to put the blame onto someone else. If you can avoid that, doesn't everyone finish the game in a happier mood?

 

[Dickie E]

Once I saw they were planning to kick for touch I would have told them that we now didn't have time for the lineout

 

[Guyseep]

Once I saw they were planning to kick for touch I would have told them that we now didn't have time for the lineout

Isn't that coaching them? Lets say a team was down by 2 and had the opportunity to kick for goal, but instead chooses to kick for touch - should we remind them of the score?

 

[Drift]

Isn't that coaching them? Lets say a team was down by 2 and had the opportunity to kick for goal, but instead chooses to kick for touch - should we remind them of the score?

It's not coaching them, it's giving them information about the time to ensure that they get a fair crack at winning the game.

 

[menace]

I agree with dickie.
Give them all the information so they can make an 'informed' decision.
They specifically asked you the time so they could weigh up their options. We all know why you said 'inside a minute', because you don't want to paint yourself into a corner with the exact time, but at that stage of the game you knew they had only 30-40 seconds, and they had options with a PK, so you should have indicated then and said 'inside a minute but you'll only have time for a lineout if you take the kick quickly'.
This is one of those empathy things. You may have been right in law, but I think you fell short on managing this bit of the game.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Blue asks for the time

Blue takes a while to decide whether they are going to run it or kick for touch and try and win a lineout. In the time they take to do this, time expires and they kick for touch. I look at my watch and see we are over time and blow the whistle for the end of the game.



Thoughts? Are we required to give the teams an indication that they likely only have time to run one play? Do we have to give the time to the second?

I don't think you should give them time other either of 2 occasions above

 

[Dickie E]

its a bit intetesting because if they hadn't asked for the time in the first place then kicked for touch after time had expired I likely wouldn't have given them any warning.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Why do people consider the time to go to be some kind of secret? IMO, the players, or at least the captain, is entitled to know exactly how much time there is to go.

My reply to the OP would be

"30 seconds and the clock is ticking!"

I am giving them the exact time to go, and warning them to get on with it!

 

[Drift]

I don't think you should give them time other either of 2 occasions above

Where's your empathy for the players? Do you also keep the score secret?

 

[Guyseep]

Why do people consider the time to go to be some kind of secret? IMO, the players, or at least the captain, is entitled to know exactly how much time there is to go.

My reply to the OP would be

"30 seconds and the clock is ticking!"

I am giving them the exact time to go, and warning them to get on with it!

In my case I wasn't deliberately withholding the time. I set my time by using a stopwatch, so the time counts up. The game was 30 min halves so when I quickly looked at watch it said 29:xx. I told them less than a minute and then set the mark and pushed the white team back 10 meters. They then deliberated on what to do and kicked it out. Adding to the situation was coaches yelling from the sidelines telling players what do and so on. Once it was kicked out I blew for out of play, then looked down at my watch and time had expired. So I called end of game.

There was a genuine confusion of whether or not they were going to run it or kick for touch. If the captain asked "do we have time for a lineout?" I would have said given them a more detailed answer.

 

[Ian_Cook]

In my case I wasn't deliberately withholding the time. I set my time by using a stopwatch, so the time counts up. The game was 30 min halves so when I quickly looked at watch it said 29:xx. I told them less than a minute and then set the mark and pushed the white team back 10 meters. They then deliberated on what to do and kicked it out. Adding to the situation was coaches yelling from the sidelines telling players what do and so on. Once it was kicked out I blew for out of play, then looked down at my watch and time had expired. So I called end of game.

There was a genuine confusion of whether or not they were going to run it or kick for touch. If the captain asked "do we have time for a lineout?" I would have said given them a more detailed answer.

Sorry guyseep, my comment wasn't directed specifically at you. Its just that I get a general feeling that some referees think the players don't have the right to know the time on the game clock. I disagree with that.

I think what you did was about right, the only thing is that if there were 30 second left, then "less than a minute" might be true but its not accurate. As I said the actual time to go off your watch with a reminder that the clock is ticking tells them that they need to get on with it.

 

[crossref]

I think that if, when it comes to blowing for full time, you are going to be meticulous about following your watch to the second (which is fine) the n you absolutely should have told them the exact number of seconds

Conversly if you want to retain some wiggle room and tell them less than a minute and they take the kick in.. Less than a minute.. Then you have a lineout

 

[DrSTU]

You got the team with a dreaded "GOTCHA!"

If you were quite happy to tell them there was "less than a minute left" when they asked, why weren't you willing to let them know that time had expired and that option was no longer valid?

Think of it this way, at a conversion, would you say to the kicker "30 seconds left" or just stand there and disallow the kick when their time had run out?

 

[Ronald]

Tough one, I can see both sides of the coin. I don't have a problem with saying "less than a minute", but would have told the cappie when the kicker lined up for touch that there won't be time for the LO...even if it was them that wasted time in whichever way. However, nothing wrong with what OP did, but agree with the "empathy" comments.

 

[crossref]

In my case I wasn't deliberately withholding the time. I set my time by using a stopwatch, so the time counts up. The game was 30 min halves so when I quickly looked at watch it said 29:xx. I told them less than a minute r.

there's your action point from this -- get yourself a watch that counts down to zero, then no mental arithmetic is required to answer the question 'how much longer, sir'. You can just look down and read off the time to go.

[no player has ever asked 'how much time has elapsed so far?]

 

[ddjamo]

Better yet get with a referee coach and sort the entire process using law, equity and empathy. That's not how a youth match should end with the ref playing " I gotcha!"

- - - Updated - - -

Heck...any match for that matter.

 

[damo]

I think that if, when it comes to blowing for full time, you are going to be meticulous about following your watch to the second (which is fine) the n you absolutely should have told them the exact number of seconds

Conversly if you want to retain some wiggle room and tell them less than a minute and they take the kick in.. Less than a minute.. Then you have a lineout

This with bells on. If I told a team that there was "less than a minute to go" then we are playing the lineout.

 

[ChrisR]

Since you noticed time expired after the ball goes to touch then play the lineout.