Law clarification 4/2015 : Full time whistle, but AR has his flag in...

[crossref]

http://laws.worldrugby.org/index.php?domain=10&year=2015&clarification=1013

[LAWS]Clarification 4 2015
Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
Ruling4-2015
Union / HP Ref Manager UAR
Law Reference 6
Date 15 April 2015

Request
The UAR seeks clarification on Law 6 – Match Officials.

Following the controversy after a match in the Argentine National Clubs Championships 1st Division on the 21st March 2015 regarding the decision by the referee to blow the whistle for the end of the match and then deciding to continue it, we would like a clarification in Law.

Scenario:
There is a ruck and the referee blows the whistle because the ball becomes unplayable and then blows again to indicate clearly the end of the match with the score 18-19. The assistant referee immediately calls the referee and tells him that a player from the winning team was clearly offside in the ruck and kicked the ball. The referee requests a review by the TMO that confirms the action. Then the referee shows a yellow card to the infringing player. After that, the referee decides the restart of the match with a penalty kick that is converted to goal and the referee blows the end of the match with the score 21-19.

The Law says:
6.A.4(b) The referee keeps the time.

6.A.8(a) The referee must carry a whistle and blow the whistle to indicate the beginning and end of each half of the match.

6.A.6 The referee may alter a decision when an assistant referee has raised the flag to signal touch or an act of foul play.

Question:
If the referee blows for the end of the match, is there any reason for which he can restart the match?

Clarification in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
If the assistant referee has flagged for foul play/deliberate infringement and it takes place before the end of the match, then the referee may restart the match with a penalty kick, free kick or mark, etc. If the flag was raised after the final whistle or for non-foul play/deliberate infringement, then the game is over.

Law 5.7(e) reinforces this:
If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick at goal. If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed. If time expires and a mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue.[/LAWS]


This bit seems rather strange to me

If the assistant referee has flagged for foul play/deliberate infringement and it takes place before the end of the match, then the referee may restart the match with a penalty kick, free kick or mark, etc.

Given that the ref would only restart for foul play or deliberate offending, how can the restart ever be anything but a Penalty Kick?

Also note this

If the flag was raised after the final whistle or for non-foul play/deliberate infringement, then the game is over

in the scenario given it seems like the AR did raise his flag AFTER the final whistle had gone. So in fact the game shouldn't have restarted !

 

[mg3dem]

This is the link to the video of the action:
https://youtu.be/K3LoXfVSAaI?t=4m26s
In 5:00 you can see the AR trying to communicate with the referee.

 

[Browner]

This is the link to the video of the action:
https://youtu.be/K3LoXfVSAaI?t=4m26s
In 5:00 you can see the AR trying to communicate with the referee.

Excellent, thank you for posting.

There is so much good to be seen in this clip,
Skill, Referee demeanor, AR /referee positioning, but especially the way that Blanco Capitano accepts both the YC & PK decision and presumably when he enquires time is up ...the referees "no, play on" decision without any audience playing protestations.

Only after the final whistle does the socceresk pitch invasion happen!

So, This decision then rests on "9 [FONT=fs_blakeregular]from the winning team was clearly offside in the ruck" because we know you can kick the ball in a ruck , so if true, then that is a pretty critical call and well spotted by the AR.

Ah ha, but was it intentional ??????????

[/FONT]

 

[Pegleg]

Law 5.7(e) reinforces this:
If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick at goal. If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed. If time expires and a mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue.


This bit seems rather strange to me


Given that the ref would only restart for foul play or deliberate offending, how can the restart ever be anything but a Penalty Kick?

It does not say anything about restarting after foul play or deliberate offending with a freekick or a scrum. It say that Law 5.7(e) reinforces the ruling. That law includes reference to other issues that can delay the end of a game.

Also note this

in the scenario given it seems like the AR did raise his flag AFTER the final whistle had gone. So in fact the game shouldn't have restarted !

Does it really?

Here's what it actually says: "The assistant referee immediately calls the referee and tells him that a player from the winning team was clearly offside in the ruck and kicked the ball." It makes no reference to whether the flag was already out. It merely say the AR called to the referee to bring it to his attention. Presumably he was signaling but the referee had not seen it.

 

[Pegleg]

Indeed he was signalling if verbally and not by using the flag. Judging from the video.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Given that the ref would only restart for foul play or deliberate offending, how can the restart ever be anything but a Penalty Kick?

Time Wasting is the only Law 10 FK, so technically it could happen, but I cannot see how it could apply to a situation like this

in the scenario given it seems like the AR did raise his flag AFTER the final whistle had gone. So in fact the game shouldn't have restarted !

Why should the outcome change for something that happened before the final whistle simply because the AR is a bit slow in getting his flag up. IMO, the Law here really means the game cannot be restarted if he raises his flag for something that happened after the final whistle.

Indeed he was signalling it verbally and not by using the flag. Judging from the video.

I don't have a problem with that. Raising the flag is just a visual method of communication. Modern referees in matches like this are miked up, so the flag is not the be-all and end-all.

 

[Pegleg]

Totally agree with you Ian. The flag would have helped but the correct call is the most important thing.

 

[crossref]

His gestures are irrelevant, clearly he had comms. I guess there is no way we can ever know if he used them
The way that the UAR described the incident led me to think that the AR only communicated to the Ref after the whistle. This would make sense as it would explain why the Ref blew the whistle.
..

 

[crossref]

It does not say anything about restarting after foul play or deliberate offending with a freekick or a scrum..

yes it does - first sentence it says

[LAWS]Clarification in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
If the assistant referee has flagged for foul play/deliberate infringement and it takes place before the end of the match, then the referee may restart the match with a penalty kick, free kick or mark, etc.[/LAWS]

which in terms of the Laws is illiterate - there is no foul play / deliberate infringement that would lead to a FK (let alone a mark (!!!)).

 

[Balones]

Generally protocol suggests that active ARs with comms do not 'flag' for deliberate infringement. They use comms. For foul play they would use comms and perhaps 'flash' the flag if advantage is being played for the benefit of the crowd if the defending side had committed the offence. Play would be stopped via comms if the attacking team had committed the foul play. For a deliberate offence it is unlikely that a flag would be used, only comms.

What we have in this situation I believe is a situation where the referee blows his whistle and at that stage the AR does not appear to have communicated anything to the ref. His hand has not moved to his comms set. (I'm assuming that he is using the same sort of set used in RFU land where the comms has to be switched on to speak and this button is near the neck/collar. ) The AR may not have put in any comms because he might have thought that the ref was going to blow for the offence. He would not perhaps at this stage have known that the ref had not spotted the offence. It was obvious by the second whistle that the ref had not spotted the offence and that was why the AR attracted the attention of the ref. The ref goes to the TMO and it is he that confirms the offence as being coming in at the side and illegally playing/killing the ball. The ref tells the captain it was cynical which would suggest it was deliberate.
It would appear to me that the offence was spotted by the AR before the final whistle but the conveying of the information occurred after the whistle.

 

[crossref]

Balones that seems right to me.
Comms are what's important at this level, not flags
And if the AR had come in on comms before the final whistle, then obviously the ref would not have blown the final whistle.

 

[Balones]

I must admit that in this clip I have difficulty actually spotting the offence and the involvement of the No 9.

 

[crossref]

In fact the more I think about this clarification, the less significant it seems to be.

- It says that as long as the AR flags in before the final whistle then we'll have the PK.
- But after the final whistle has gone, it's too late for the AR to raise anything new now.

Which is entirely what everyone would expect.

But when the AR flags/comms before the final whistle, then the ref won't blow the final whistle anyway. The only scenario where this clarification bites is the rare situation where the AR has flagged/comm before the whistle but the referee didn't notice and blew for time. In this scenario they make it clear that the game restarts.

 

[Taff]

The AR seems to be indicating a knock on - which isn't foul play.

And there shouldn't be any play after the final whistle has been blown anyway.

 

[OB..]

And there shouldn't be any play after the final whistle has been blown anyway.

...which is precisely the point that is being challenged.

 

[crossref]

there can of course be an act of foul play after the final whistle has gone - eg a punch. - the clarification makes it clear that you wouldn't restart the game for that.

 

[TheBFG]

12 is clearly in front of the kicker in his own deadball area, just saying! :wink:

 

[Pegleg]

yes it does - first sentence it says

[LAWS]Clarification in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
If the assistant referee has flagged for foul play/deliberate infringement and it takes place before the end of the match, then the referee may restart the match with a penalty kick, free kick or mark, etc.[/LAWS]

which in terms of the Laws is illiterate - there is no foul play / deliberate infringement that would lead to a FK (let alone a mark (!!!)).

My mistake. however:

10.2(b)

 

[crossref]

Time wasting??
How could an AR ever flag time wasting? What sort of scenario do you have in mind?

 

[Pegleg]

Time wasting??
How could an AR ever flag time wasting? What sort of scenario do you have in mind?

One where the AR saw the time wasting but the ref did not perhaps? The point is it's best not to be too sweeping inyour statements.