[Law] Law Exam !

[Camquin]

How many referees would allow the drop goal and then realise that because the player had been held up and not brought to ground there had been no tackle and therefore the drop goal was not on. But it would feel wrong not to award it.

Touched in flight is the opposite. The drop goal was not on when it was kicked, but is when it bisects the goal. It would feel wrong to award it.

Frankly I do not believe anyone here disagrees that the law book could do with a thorough edit and these are just two more corner cases that should be looked at and nowhere near the top of the list.

 

[rugbyslave]

I say award the try, and run like hell !!!, and explain by email.

 

[DocY]

How many referees would allow the drop goal and then realise that because the player had been held up and not brought to ground there had been no tackle and therefore the drop goal was not on. But it would feel wrong not to award it.

Touched in flight is the opposite. The drop goal was not on when it was kicked, but is when it bisects the goal. It would feel wrong to award it.

Frankly I do not believe anyone here disagrees that the law book could do with a thorough edit and these are just two more corner cases that should be looked at and nowhere near the top of the list.

It's our friend 'spirit of the laws' again - the DG following a maul is in the spirit (to me, at least), but touched in flight is not.

 

[Ricardowensleydale]

It's our friend 'spirit of the laws' again - the DG following a maul is in the spirit (to me, at least), but touched in flight is not.

What is "the spirit of the law"? Is it that you cannot score until the opposition have had a chance to compete for the ball? Why is a scrum less of an opportunity to compete for the ball than the other options?

 

[OB..]

What is "the spirit of the law"? Is it that you cannot score until the opposition have had a chance to compete for the ball? Why is a scrum less of an opportunity to compete for the ball than the other options?

Since the scrum is taken as an alternative to a kick, I think that (unless the ball is won against the head) it should be treated as if it were a FK. However in subsequent play, mauls, tackles, rucks, etc all count. Touching the ball after it has been kicked in an invalid DG attempt does not.

 

[Ricardowensleydale]

Since the scrum is taken as an alternative to a kick, I think that (unless the ball is won against the head) it should be treated as if it were a FK. However in subsequent play, mauls, tackles, rucks, etc all count. Touching the ball after it has been kicked in an invalid DG attempt does not.

I understand that the scrum is taken as an alternative to the kick and the point I was making was that the scrum CAN be won against the head and is, perhaps, therefore just as realistic a challenge for the ball as a maul.

Just out of interest does anyone know the stats of how often a maul leads to a turnover as compared to a scrum?

 

[DocY]

I understand that the scrum is taken as an alternative to the kick and the point I was making was that the scrum CAN be won against the head and is, perhaps, therefore just as realistic a challenge for the ball as a maul.

Just out of interest does anyone know the stats of how often a maul leads to a turnover as compared to a scrum?

I don't have numbers, but in my experience a maul results in a turnover far more than a scrum (and more than a ruck, too). Typically the ball not coming out and resulting in a scrum. And if it does come out, the ball's often gone to ground turning it into a ruck.

I'm inferring here, but I think the no DG after a FK scrum option comes from:
You can't kick a goal from a FK
OK - we'll tap it, then kick a DG
No, you can't do that either.
In that case, we'll take a scrum, channel 1 ball, back to the 10, who'll kick a DG.

I think the spirit of the law is a contest for the ball, yes. Nothing in law to say this, it's just what I think is fair and sensible. Though in practice, how many mauls do you get where only one team touches the ball?

 

[didds]

in my experience a maul results in a turnover far more than a scrum (and more than a ruck, too). Typically the ball not coming out and resulting in a scrum. And if it does come out, the ball's often gone to ground turning it into a ruck.

Light blue touchpaper and withdraw...

didds

 

[OB..]

I understand that the scrum is taken as an alternative to the kick and the point I was making was that the scrum CAN be won against the head and is, perhaps, therefore just as realistic a challenge for the ball as a maul.

...and my point was that unless the ball is stolen, it makes pragmatic sense to assume the opposition did not play it.

 

[Blackberry]

Since the scrum is taken as an alternative to a kick, I think that (unless the ball is won against the head) it should be treated as if it were a FK. However in subsequent play, mauls, tackles, rucks, etc all count. Touching the ball after it has been kicked in an invalid DG attempt does not.

The law does say that opting for a scrum does not remove the requirement for the opposition to have been involved in some way before a DG can be taken.

If a team gets a FK they, and the ref, should imagine the posts are temporarily out of commission, so the ball going over them has no effect, play on as if they had crossed the line wide of the posts. To my shame, two things; I have not heard of a clarification which calls for a DO if the a DG is scored...or rather not scored... and I have always treated a ruck or a maul as sufficient to then allow a DG.

 

[DocY]

I have not heard of a clarification which calls for a DO if the a DG is scored...or rather not scored... and I have always treated a ruck or a maul as sufficient to then allow a DG.

FYI: http://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=10&year=2014&clarification=1009&language=EN

[LAWS][FONT=fs_blakeregular]
Could you please clarify as the Laws of the Game do not clearly state how to restart play after the attempted dropped goal has been taken?[/FONT]
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]Clarification in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee[/FONT]
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]The illegal drop kick as described should be treated similar to a punt in general play, i.e. play continues. If the ball becomes dead from the kick then Law 22.8 should apply.

Law 22.8: Ball kicked dead through in-goal

If a team kicks the ball through their opponents’ in-goal into touch-in-goal or on or over the dead ball line, except by an unsuccessful kick at goal or attempted dropped goal, the defending team has two choices:

• To have a drop-out, or
• To have a scrum at the place where the ball was kicked and they throw in

[/FONT][/LAWS]