Leicester v Toulon

[Dave Sherwin]

Anyone else feel that there is becoming something of a trend for a single very dominant shove on a scrum to be rewarded with a penalty even if the retreating pack hasn't actually yet done anything wrong. Case in point being the scrum on approx 45 mins in the Leicester v Toulon game where Leicester were very dominant but, at the moment Owens blows his whistle, I can't really yet see a material offence (arguably Armitage's bind is a bit loose, but hardly heinous). Just to confirm, I support no team other than England, so this is merely an interested query!

 

[FlipFlop]

There is also a trend for the "dominant" scrum to get the PK, even if the dominance comes from illegal actions.

Commentators even say now - "Well they were going forward, so got the PK".

 

[Browner]

Anyone else feel that there is becoming something of a trend for a single very dominant shove on a scrum to be rewarded with a penalty even if the retreating pack hasn't actually yet done anything wrong.

Case in point being the scrum on approx 45 mins in the Leicester v Toulon game where Leicester were very dominant but, at the moment Owens blows his whistle, I can't really yet see a material offence (arguably Armitage's bind is a bit loose, but hardly heinous.)

Clip vid?
What did NO actually say ? Perhaps ...... " i go backwards slower than that " :biggrin:

 

[Dave Sherwin]

Sorry, not technically ept enough to provide clip. No clear verbiage from NO, but used the universal signal for 'standing up under pressure', which seems, as I say, to have become shorthand for 'you were really going backwards very fast'.

 

[Browner]

Sorry, not technically ept enough to provide clip. No clear verbiage from NO, but used the universal signal for 'standing up under pressure', which seems, as I say, to have become shorthand for 'you were really going backwards very fast'.

Coincidentally, NO is the referee in the video that attaches to Law 20.3(i ).
[LAWS](i)
Player forced upwards. If a player in a scrum is lifted in the air, or is forced upwards out of the scrum, the referee must blow the whistle immediately so that players stop pushing.[/LAWS]

???

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Clip vid?
What did NO actually say ? Perhaps ...... " i go backwards slower than that " :biggrin:

View attachment 3112

msfmsf

 

[The Fat]

NO said nothing. He just made the standing up signal even though clearly they had not.

 

[Chunky Charvis]

I thought a penalty to Leicester was correct.
However, the more credible reasoning would have been "not pushing straight" (it goes round at a rate of knots, once they are going backwards)

I say I will reward the "LEGALLY dominant scrum!"

 

[Phil E]

Is it one of these scrums?

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries...ayer-analysis-marcos-ayerza-leicester-tigers/

 

[Browner]

Is it one of these scrums?

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries...ayer-analysis-marcos-ayerza-leicester-tigers/

Jeepers, that is some article, worth an extra £2k per week on his next contract negotiations methinks ......

 

[FlipFlop]

You mean an article showing how he scrums illegally? By boring in.....

 

[Pegleg]

Indeed every time he come in. Still he conned Nigel and plenty of others it seems.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

Is it one of these scrums?http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries...ayer-analysis-marcos-ayerza-leicester-tigers/

Yes - it's the second clip which I was talking about. It's a bit unfortunate that the lack of sound doesn't show exactly when NO blew, but to my mind, at the point he blew, Toulon hadn't yet committed an offence. Sure, they quickly broke up as and after the whistle went, but I think the secondary signal for standing up is also hard to justify.I wasn't really, though, picking on this scrum. It seems to me more of a trend. Of course, much of the time when a scrum gains utter dominance in a single scrum, the other team will offend, but there are times when they don't, get shoved backwards 5 metres and still seem to concede a penalty.I gave a penalty try not so long ago for a scrum which started just outside the 22. Mexico completely overpowered Jamaica and went forward right up to the 5 metre line with Jamaica not yet committing an offence - it was just a very well organized overpowering. Only when the scrum got to the five metre line did Jamaica collapse it.

 

[Browner]

Yes - it's the second clip which I was talking about. It's a bit unfortunate that the lack of sound doesn't show exactly when NO blew, but to my mind, at the point he blew, Toulon hadn't yet committed an offence. Sure, they quickly broke up as and after the whistle went, but I think the secondary signal for standing up is also hard to justify.I wasn't really, though, picking on this scrum. It seems to me more of a trend. Of course, much of the time when a scrum gains utter dominance in a single scrum, the other team will offend, but there are times when they don't, get shoved backwards 5 metres and still seem to concede a penalty.I gave a penalty try not so long ago for a scrum which started just outside the 22. Mexico completely overpowered Jamaica and went forward right up to the 5 metre line with Jamaica not yet committing an offence - it was just a very well organized overpowering. Only when the scrum got to the five metre line did Jamaica collapse it.

I remember playing in a match once where we got shoved over our own line & our opponents scored from a 5m scrum .

not unusual I hear you say , ....ah ha .... But on the next 5m occasion near our goal line ( with their feed) we commenced some retribution & shoved them back 7-8 m .....hooray!! ,

.....but theyd still retained possession and once theyd gathered themselves, they then commenced another allmighty shove that resulted in us reversing again, but this time we went 13m back & they scored again.... :holysheep:

That 'local derby' wound took a while to heal I can tell you.

 

[RobLev]

You mean an article showing how he scrums illegally? By boring in.....

Bore in? Perish the thought. He "deals in body angles. Often, he locates weakness by using his stout frame and low stance to burrow under his rival and subtly in towards the opposition hooker". :biggrin:

 

[didds]

... .....but theyd still retained possession and once theyd gathered themselves, they then commenced another allmighty shove that resulted in us reversing again, but this time we went 13m back & they scored again.... :holysheep:

That 'local derby' wound took a while to heal I can tell you.

I was once in a scrum that pushed our opponents square and straight for 40m at least ... for our number eight to knock on in the act of attempting to score.

His name shall remain... nah... Adrian "Hooley" Heneghan. Bloody Irish number 8s... bah.

didds

 

[crossref]

now I am sure that the last time you told us that it was only 35m ...