Leinster v Edinburgh

[Gracie]

Was it me?

As Edinburgh's Damien Hoyden broke through with just Fergus McFadden between hime and the try line, McFadden took the player out at head height with his shoulder. As the TMO indicated there had been a “no-arms tackle and the commentators expected a RC, Mitrea, decided on a penalty because he felt McFadden’s hit had not been intentionally dangerous.

I'm not sure how to do links but this URL shows the incidents:


http://www.the42.ie/fergus-mcfadden-hit-edinburgh-leinster-2718920-Apr2016/

All thoughts welcome; for me a RC and a Penalty Try (the video does not clearly show proximity to the try lone)

 

[Pegleg]

, Mitrea, decided on a penalty because he felt McFadden’s hit had not been intentionally dangerous.

Not seen it and I can't get the video to work (poor Connection out in the far west of Wales).

Just reading the bit I've quoted, The comment is not relevant to the question of a PT. DID the foul play stop a "PROBABLE" try? If the answer is yes then it is a PT. Intention has nothing to do with it.

Now on to the card issues. Intent starts to come in here. So I'd be prepared (with the caveat above) to say:

1 PK
2 PT & RC
3 PT & YC
4 PT NO card

are all possible. However, the clear inference in the comment "Mitrea, decided on a penalty because he felt McFadden’s hit had not been intentionally dangerous." is the a PT has to be intentional (in the ref's mind) and that is why the Pro 12 stinks!

 

[Pegleg]

Ok just watched the video. That's the 22 mtr line and there seems to be covering players around. So a PT is in question. The challenge is sick and a red card for me every time.

 

[ChrisR]

RC, no question. Expect citing.

 

[Gracie]

Pegleg the part I'd add is that the covering players were those he had already past as he broke through

 

[Pegleg]

Not clear from the image but certainly a fuller picture might point to a PT. The quality of the refs in the Pro 12 is low. The question of impartiallity is also one that needs to be addressed.

If the Celtic nations want to be taken seriously they need to sort it out.

 

[didds]

Impartiality is in question?

You are saying the refs cheat?

Just checking?

Didds

 

[Pegleg]

I'm saying there is a perception that some of the referees in the pro 12 are swayed by their employers interests when making calls. I'm saying there is a perception that some of the referees in the pro 12 are not of the standard required.

Now the Pro 12 can ignore that perception BUT when we look at the make up of a standard pro 12 group off officials we usualy see:


(Irish side V Welsh side in Ireland) (FOR EXAMPLE)
Ref (WRU)
AR 1 (IRFU)
AR 2 (IRFU)
TMO: (IRFU)
Citing officer: (IRFU)

Of course these are reversed in the reverse fixture. Some time the Ref above is replaced by an Italian or Scottish ref. Is it any wonder that perception exists?

In the game under discussion the official team was:

Ref (Italy)
AR 1 (IRFU)
AR 2 (IRFU)
TMO: (IRFU)
Citing officer: (IRFU)

Ceaser's wife needs to be above suspicion. The Pro 12 is not. If it wants credibility is needs to address this perception.

 

[OB..]

Ceaser's wife needs to be above suspicion.

"Stop it, Julius"!

Is the problem finance (expenses for travelling referees) or simply a lack of qualified officials?

 

[didds]

Agreed OB. First thing I thought, especially WRT the non ref appointments.


didds

 

[Dixie]

RC, no question. Expect citing.

He's been cited. http://myinforms.com/en-gb/a/30732775-leinsters-fergus-mcfadden-cited-for-dangerous-tackle/

Perhaps the Pro 12 needs to book Marauder as an independent TMO

 

[Pegleg]

"Stop it, Julius"!

Is the problem finance (expenses for travelling referees) or simply a lack of qualified officials?

Money is often stated as the reason. Whatever the reason the problem exists. THere is a problem also with the quality of the officials. A few seasons ago none of the scottich refs were considered good enough. The Italians bring little to the table by way of teams and officials.

 

[Shelflife]

"I'm saying there is a perception that some of the referees in the pro 12 are swayed by their employers interests when making calls. "

Would you like to expand on that Pegleg ?

 

[Pegleg]

Supporters and some of the sides question the impartiality of the officials. The percieve that there is a bias in decision making. There are staff at the region that I work within that will openly tell you that they "know" they will get short change if certain officials are in charge. so the perception is there.

In particular the employer / emloyee relationship between the IRFU and the players and the referees is seen as a conflict by many. Of course as Wales introduces more dual contracts this perception will increase here also.

Of course the perception may well be wrong. So why leave referees under the pressure that the preception brings?

 

[Gracie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36091443

well at least McFadden was cited and banned for 3 weeks for "carrying out a high and dangerous tackle" - still staggered that with the resources at hand the ref failed to take appropriate action at the time

 

[Dickie E]

tackle was around upper-arms and wrap was attempted. Play on for me.

Edit: just seen more angles here. Not struck high but no credible attempt to wrap. Yellow card.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2016/04/50...or-three-weeks-for-this-dangerous-high-tackle

 

[Pegleg]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36091443

well at least McFadden was cited and banned for 3 weeks for "carrying out a high and dangerous tackle" - still staggered that with the resources at hand the ref failed to take appropriate action at the time

Staggered but not surprised.

 

[DocY]

Money is often stated as the reason. Whatever the reason the problem exists. THere is a problem also with the quality of the officials. A few seasons ago none of the scottich refs were considered good enough. The Italians bring little to the table by way of teams and officials.

From what I've heard there have been discussions with the teams about independent refs and their standpoint is that they don't want to insist upon independent refs if it means lower quality refs.

This is a case in point - nobody's going to say Mitrea had a vested interest in the outcome of this game, but he's one of the weaker refs in the Pro 12.

I've also heard that they've considered bringing in English or French refs, but that's where the money becomes a problem.

To me, it would make sense to invest in Italian and Scottish referees - if there are three of either you're guaranteed one isn't going to be refereeing a team from his country. I've no idea how to do this, mind.

 

[irishref]

I'm saying there is a perception that some of the referees in the pro 12 are swayed by their employers interests when making calls. I'm saying there is a perception that some of the referees in the pro 12 are not of the standard required.

Now the Pro 12 can ignore that perception BUT when we look at the make up of a standard pro 12 group off officials we usualy see:


(Irish side V Welsh side in Ireland) (FOR EXAMPLE)
Ref (WRU)
AR 1 (IRFU)
AR 2 (IRFU)
TMO: (IRFU)
Citing officer: (IRFU)

Of course these are reversed in the reverse fixture. Some time the Ref above is replaced by an Italian or Scottish ref. Is it any wonder that perception exists?

In the game under discussion the official team was:

Ref (Italy)
AR 1 (IRFU)
AR 2 (IRFU)
TMO: (IRFU)
Citing officer: (IRFU)

Ceaser's wife needs to be above suspicion. The Pro 12 is not. If it wants credibility is needs to address this perception.

So using your logic we shouldn't have a west-country ref doing Bath or Gloucester games or a Parisian ref doing Racing or Stad Francais games.

I find your suggestion that refs in the Pro12 would favour their own country quite poor form.

 

[RobLev]

tackle was around upper-arms and wrap was attempted. Play on for me.

Edit: just seen more angles here. Not struck high but no credible attempt to wrap. Yellow card.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2016/04/50...or-three-weeks-for-this-dangerous-high-tackle

Where does McFadden's shoulder hit him?