[Tackle] Lifting Tackle

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
16,135
Post Likes
2,407
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
The coach was an experienced referee.

So he/she should know better than to shout at the referee from the side-lines :shrug:
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,816
Post Likes
3,154
I once reffed a game where a team has all been coached to take a roll or two forwards after being tackled. It happened almost every single tackle (until I stopped them obviously)
It's quite hard explaining to kids that the tactic they have been practicing for ages is suddenly (from their perspective) illegal

At the same time as the coach is loudly disagreeing from the sidelines

(The kids were great they quickly understood what I wanted , grumbled a little, but importantly they changed behaviour)
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,145
Post Likes
1,837
I once reffed a game where a team has all been coached to take a roll or two forwards after being tackled. It happened almost every single tackle (until I stopped them obviously)
It's quite hard explaining to kids that the tactic they have been practicing for ages is suddenly (from their perspective) illegal

At the same time as the coach is loudly disagreeing from the sidelines

(The kids were great they quickly understood what I wanted , grumbled a little, but importantly they changed behaviour)


I despair.

Monkey see, monkey do.

The elites do it, and it gets generally permitted (though they do get pinged for it when its egregious ) ... so monkey coach sees it and coaches it to his players. With no appreciation/understanding/knowledge of what arrangements and agreements may underline that action/tactic at that elite level.

Meanwhile monkey grass roots ref sees it and thinks "oo - they allow it so I should to be like them". With no appreciation/understanding/knowledge of what arrangements and agreements may underline that action/tactic at that elite level.

And so the more sensible of referees see it but realise they have no arrangements and agreements for that action/tactic, so correctly ping it.

result the monkies make it a painful process for those involved whena sensible grass roots ref blows the whistle.

winner.

didds
 

chbg


Referees in England
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
1,490
Solutions
1
Post Likes
450
Current Referee grade:
Level 7
I once reffed a game where a team has all been coached to take a roll or two forwards after being tackled. It happened almost every single tackle (until I stopped them obviously)
It's quite hard explaining to kids that the tactic they have been practicing for ages is suddenly (from their perspective) illegal

At the same time as the coach is loudly disagreeing from the sidelines

(The kids were great they quickly understood what I wanted , grumbled a little, but importantly they changed behaviour)

It happens to me about once a month ... especially after a longer period of coaching unopposed rugby. The issue is usually one of materiality (as always); if no opposition near, they'll probably get away with a 270 roll. If opposition ready to jackle, then BC must comply with 14.7. Coaches forget the opposition; players tend to understand that there are two sides challenging for the ball, regularly changing roles.
 

Greig

New member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
49
Post Likes
0
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
So he/she should know better than to shout at the referee from the side-lines :shrug:

He said: "It's not illegal!" once only, loud enough so the players could all hear it. Fortunately the players listened to me, and not him.
 

Greig

New member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
49
Post Likes
0
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
Jeezus.
Pharquing.
Kreyezt.

didds

He was a referee of adults, grade level. Perhaps his error was in thinking that he could get away with teaching stuff adults understand easily, to kids with limited frontal lobe capability.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,816
Post Likes
3,154
He said: "It's not illegal!" once only, loud enough so the players could all hear it. Fortunately the players listened to me, and not him.

there's another fundamental mistake gong on here (from the coach).

Rugby is a complex games and -- like it or not -- referees have different approaches, different opinions, different understanding and (sadly) different knowledge about the Laws.

(this is not just at elite level, but also at grassroots level :) )

Good coaching is to teach teams to understand and accept different refs, and work around it, adjusting quickly to what a referee wants. that's very important in winning hard games.

Coaches yell that the ref is rubbish, quickly cause their kids to lose heart, to believe the ref is against them and the game is unwinnable. Which is self-fulfilling, they don't win it.

setting foot on a rugby pitch and moaning about the ref is like sailing on the ocean and moaning about the weather.

adapt...
 

Stu10


Referees in England
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
883
Post Likes
478
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
The problem with the GMGs is that they leave this gap between safe (legal) and dangerous (illegal) lifting that is open to interpretation (as you say). This leaves a hole open for junior coaches to insist that lifting in the tackle is legal and is a technique that can give their team an advantage, but in my view creates a situation that is potentially dangerous for young and inexperienced players.

In the game I describe above, the second PK came with a team warning. When I said to the captain that I had deemed the lift illegal and the team must stop lifting, the coach went mental on the sideline, saying it was legal. In the coaches eyes, I was the villain for making a decision that disadvantaged his team. I am looking for a way to EXPLAIN to players and coaches in a way that discourages the technique in lifting in the tackle, that connects directly to the laws of the game (not interpretation).

I was in this forum looking for something else, but this thread caught my eye; and feels timely because last night I went to an RFU Play It Safe session as a refresher for myself.

As others have pointed out, this is a legal tackle provided the tackled player is not tipped beyond the horizontal an is put down safely; however, since this is an age-grade game, I believe there is a safeguarding issue/risk. At under 14s, I believe there is a high risk that one of these tackles could go very wrong, and someone could get very hurt, and you, as a referee, are responsible to ensure the game is as safe as reasonably possible. You may struggle to stop use of this tackle technique in an adult game, but I believe especially at age-grade that safety and potential risk to players trumps what is technically allowed.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,816
Post Likes
3,154
They put put a lot of thought into the age grade regulations, I think the best thing refs can do is stick to them .
I remember age grade was plagued with each referee being different from the previous. Sometimes from ignorance sometimes deliberate.. I could never decide which was worse

And it creates a real challenge for kids and coaches alike
 
Last edited:

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
16,135
Post Likes
2,407
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
They put put a lot of thought into the age grade regulations, I think the best thing refs can do is stick to them .

You could say the same about the laws :unsure:
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,816
Post Likes
3,154
You could say the same about the laws :unsure:
Obviously, yes

But my experience is that age grade much more often has refs who are either ignorant, or choose deliberately to ignore laws

But what was your point? May have missed it
 
Top