Line Out numbers

[ChrisR]

If Blue can't count numbers and don't comply then they are giving Red a free pass on the throw. If Red cock it up they still get the FK.

I think the 2018 law is fair coz if Red throw in immediately they are accepting the numbers, in balance or not, and "Play on".

 

[Thunderhorse1986]

It resulted in both teams putting 4 players in the lineout and removed the throwing side's option of a short lineout.

I don't see how this removes the option of a short lineout? You can still chose to have 3 you have 1 player extra in the back line, for example.

Or more likely, if defending team is only putting 4 you put 6/7/8 and set up an unstoppable maul?

 

[didds]

I'd say the same TH, but from whatever OB knows (and I am not doubting him) it seems this didn't happen.

didds

 

[Dickie E]

2017 Law book
19.8(e) If the team throwing in the ball put fewer than the usual number of players in the lineout ,
their opponents must be given a reasonable time to move enough players out of the lineout
to satisfy this Law.
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line

So If "reasonable time" is not given you do not FK.

for me that meant the FK was given against the throwing team for not giving reasonable time

2018
Law 18 14. Unless the throw is taken as soon as the lineout is formed, the non-throwing team may
not have more players (but may have fewer players) in the lineout than the throwing
team. Sanction: Free-kick.

If the throw is taken as soon as the LO is formed the non throwing side will not havebeen given "reasonable time" to remove players especially when sides arrive at the last minute.

Same intent, for me, stopping the "GOTCHA!".

What I am seeing is the thrower deliberately waiting for opposition (who are in some state of chaos because they aren't sure how many players they can put in) to start dropping players, then throwing into a disorganised defence. Not how I like it.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

It resulted in both teams putting 4 players in the lineout and removed the throwing side's option of a short lineout.

4 v 4 is a short line out.

 

[OB..]

I don't see how this removes the option of a short lineout? You can still chose to have 3 you have 1 player extra in the back line, for example.

Or more likely, if defending team is only putting 4 you put 6/7/8 and set up an unstoppable maul?

The defending side would put up 4 players. They could add more if the attackers chose to use more. The clubs presumably decided it was too risky to use a 2-man lineout against 4 opponents, because it disappeared. That is why the ELV was not made permanent.

 

[crossref]

So is it basically correct that the defending side pretty much *wants* to match the throwing side ?

I think that might be true .. which is why I slightly worry about abandoning 19.8e ... If it leads to teams surprising the other with sudden changes in numbers I don't see that as an improvement to the game

 

[thepercy]

Not according to Richard Every. He has asked referees to stop the "Huddle -> Approach" ploy.

I think the direction was to require a pause if they are coming in from a distance.

 

[crossref]

I think the direction was to require a pause if they are coming in from a distance.

so that the other team have time to adjust to the numbers??

 

[SimonSmith]

I think the direction was to require a pause if they are coming in from a distance.

This is snipped from an email exchange I had with him:

Form the lineout by not stopping outside the lineout. If they do. Referee blows whistle, tells them to get in. Second time they do it, FK, 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] PK, etc.

If you take a quick lineout with continuous movement to the lineout – fine

 

[ChrisR]

That smacks of the referee trying to engineer the game to his liking rather than to the laws.

I'd rather have the lineout players pause briefly to get the call rather than the prolonged signal calling to mask their intent.

 

[didds]

huddles annoy me somewhat, but I appreciate at the top level with 15K+ shouting, noisy fans etc verbakl calls have too much opportunity to get lost etc, so a huddle maybe unfortunately seems the obvious solution.

There is however a difference between a quick huddle and the "form a rough line 8m away and slowly walk in" thing...

didds