Line-out, yes or no?

[Alexei]

Not that this overrides 18.2, but perhaps where sometimes the confusion comes in as they deem the player to be 'in touch'.

I’m only getting started so don’t punch me, but this is what I thought as well, I thought a leaping player is in touch because it was his last status. Is there a definition for a leaping player? Are all leaping players considered not to be (in touch or not in touch)?

 

[jdeagro]

I’m only getting started so don’t punch me, but this is what I thought as well, I thought a leaping player is in touch because it was his last status. Is there a definition for a leaping player? Are all leaping players considered not to be (in touch or not in touch)?

It's not a status thing, the law just explicitly allow this:

18.2.b
The ball is not in touch or touch-in-goal if:

A player jumps, from within or outside the playing area, and catches the ball, and then lands in the playing area, regardless of whether the ball reached the plane of touch.

 

[Alexei]

It's not a status thing, the law just explicitly allow this:

I get that, I'm trying to understand why 18.8.c does not apply, what status does the leaping player have? By this logic, a leaping player does not hold any of the statuses: "not in touch" or "in touch"? Which is kind of confusing to me... 29 players on the field who are in touch or not in touch and 1 player that is none of the above

c. Ball is kicked from a penalty:

Event	Location of the mark of touch	Who throws in
A player kicks the ball into touch (either directly or first bouncing in the field of play or hitting an opponent or the referee).	Where the ball reaches the touchline.	The kicking team.
A player, who is in touch, catches the ball irrespective of whether the ball has reached the touchline.	Where the ball reaches the touchline or, if the ball hasn’t reached the touchline, where the player catching the ball is standing.	The kicking team.
A player, who is in touch, picks up a ball that has not reached the plane of touch.	Where that player is standing.	The kicking team.

 

[didds]

And the player's name is Schroedinger...

 

[Volun-selected]

I get that, I'm trying to understand why 18.8.c does not apply, what status does the leaping player have? By this logic, a leaping player does not hold any of the statuses: "not in touch" or "in touch"? Which is kind of confusing to me... 29 players on the field who are in touch or not in touch and 1 player that is none of the above

Hi Alexie - welcome aboard.

It’s one of those areas where we have specific exceptions carved out in the laws for…

• playability
• advantage for an offense
• we “simplified” it
• the last update forgot to copy over the text that explains this
• something we added after an international team did something “creative”
• made perfect sense in 1845
• it was a rush job after a scathing article in the Torygraph
• we just agreed so we could get the law meeting over with and have a nice G&T before dinner.

(Select any you want, but you’ll read more than once on this board “they make it up as they go along”.)

In this specific case we have a set of laws that apply generally 18.8a and then .b to .e are written to cover specific scenarios.

As to why the leaping from out of back into touch doesn’t apply for penalties - perhaps it’s to give an advantage to the disadvantaged team, who knows - but it’s there in law so we allow it. For me, a player isn’t in touch unless they’re in contact with the ground - picture the player diving for the corner who’s pushed over the touchline while in flight but touches the ball down before any other part of their body touches the ground.

But again, just a general principle like a player in touch puts their hand on a ball in touch then the ball is now in touch - except we have the exception in law when the ball is in the in-goal area (8.2e)

If we get hung up on the minutiae we can get tied in knots and a lot of this game involves the ref’s interpretation - which is what makes these threads fun.

 

[Stu10]

I get that, I'm trying to understand why 18.8.c does not apply, what status does the leaping player have? By this logic, a leaping player does not hold any of the statuses: "not in touch" or "in touch"? Which is kind of confusing to me... 29 players on the field who are in touch or not in touch and 1 player that is none of the above

A player is always "not in touch" or "in touch"... it is binary, there is not a third or in-between option. However, I believe what is important is whether the ball or ball-carrier is in touch, not the status of a player that is not a ball-carrier.

Law 18.1.a

• The ball is in touch or touch-in-goal when:
  • The ball or ball-carrier touches the touchline, touch-in-goal line or anything beyond.

A player outside the area of play without the ball is not a ball-carrier and therefore does not make the ball in touch at that moment. If the player then catches the ball while jumping in the air, the player is not touching the touchline, touch-in-goal line or anything beyond, and is therefore not in touch at that moment. The critical aspect then becomes whether they they land within the area of play while carrying the ball or make a pass before landing in-touch.

I believe this interpretation also helps understand law 18.2 (18.2.d in particular, because a player who kicks or knocks the ball, but does not hold it, is not a ball-carrier).

 

[Alexei]

A player outside the area of play without the ball is not a ball-carrier and therefore does not make the ball in touch at that moment. If the player then catches the ball while jumping in the air, the player is not touching the touchline, touch-in-goal line or anything beyond, and is therefore not in touch at that moment. The critical aspect then becomes whether they they land within the area of play while carrying the ball or make a pass before landing in-touch.

Thank you, this perfectly explains what I was confused about.