[Line out] LO/Scrum Option or FK

[thepercy]

Lineout

Ball is thrown-in not straight, jumper uses outside arm (not above his head with both hands).

LO/Scrum Option 18.23.a

OR

FK 18.29.b

 

[mcroker]

I am going options (perhaps incorrectly, because 18.29.b hadn't registered in my head)...
Even so my reasoning is that not-straight is the first offence, and scrum/LO options is certainly what the players would expect.

 

[Zebra1922]

Technically the not straight is the first offence, but I'm sure you could sell either offence/sanction. Make your decision and be clear why "FK, outside arm", "Captain, option, not straight" - simples.

 

[Rich_NL]

It's hard to penalise the jumper when the ball is on his outside shoulder...

Imagine he's on a warning for disrupting the lineout - surely you wouldn't card him for the hooker's bad throw? And if the hooker is on a warning for not throwing straight, you wouldn't let him off because the jumper used the wrong hand to control the ball.

I'd go with options for not straight - it's far clearer to everyone, a much better known law, and above all seems fairer.

 

[chbg]

Almost invariably penalise the not straight first - irrespective of which team (!) then used their outside arm illegally.


18.29b comes into play when it is otherwise fair competition for the ball.

 

[Dickie E]

well, we all know that if a player knocks on and an offside team mate plays the ball, then it is a penalty because the offside is more egregious than the knock on.

Same for this OP?

 

[Marc Wakeham]

well, we all know that if a player knocks on and an offside team mate plays the ball, then it is a penalty because the offside is more egregious than the knock on.

Same for this OP?

I'd say no. Why?

Because, with offside following a Knock On the player is preventing the opposition from playing the ball, and possibly gaining an advantage.

Whereas here, if the player is playing the ball with his ouside arm, he is not really affecting the other sides chances of catching the ball.

 

[Decorily]

Depends what he is doing with his inside arm!!☺

 

[The Fat]

Depends what he is doing with his inside arm!!☺

This is what you should be asking yourself .
If the ball is thrown not straight and the jumper uses his outside arm then give the options for not straight. If it’s a borderline throw or even a fair throw and he uses his outside arm, there’s a fair chance he’s doing something illegal with his inside arm

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Depends what he is doing with his inside arm!!☺

Well obviously if he is doing something material / dangerous or whatever. But, on the face of it we hve a not straight throw thata plyer is reachign outside the line with the "wrong arm". on that basis I'm going first offence.

 

[The Fat]

Should have added earlier that a jumper can use his outside arm but only if the inside arm is up as well.

 

[Phil E]

Go with the clear and obvious that everyone involved and the crowd all saw. Not straight, options Captain.
...and have a word with the jumper about his arms before the next lineout.

I guarantee if you go with the FK for outside arm you will have everyone scratching their heads and thinking you haven't got a clue what your doing. Help yourself by going with the C&O. You don't need to prove that you know know every law in the book that no one else has ever heard of.

Of course if the jumper used his inside arm to elbow his opposite number in the face we are in different territory.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Of course if the jumper used his inside arm to elbow his opposite number in the face we are in different territory.

Castleford. In my experience. :biggrin:

I don't think I've ever had to penalise outside arm but I've probably tooted for not straight where it may have occurred - I don't think I've noticed TBH.

 

[chbg]

When LO jumpers were not lifted, a way of going higher for the ball was to reach up with only one arm. Try it. Use of the outside arm implied that your inner shoulder, and probably head, were leaning into the gap and thus obstructing the oppo jumper.

Nowadays, with lifting, you really do not wish to unbalance your support with a heavy lean. Thus it must be one of the least used infringements.

Whatever else the jumper is using the inside arm for illegally is probably far more heinous than winning the ball with only the wrong arm up.

 

[menace]

I guarantee if you go with the FK for outside arm you will have everyone scratching their heads and thinking you haven't got a clue what your doing. Help yourself by going with the C&O. You don't need to prove that you know know every law in the book that no one else has ever heard of.

or maybe it's a great opportunity to teach 30 people a law?!?!! :biggrin:

 

[didds]

30 people?

what makes you think anybody outside the #9 (maybe!) has any interest whatsoever is going on within the confines of the lineout ?

To all those backs its just a bunch of large sweaty people jumping up and down that may get them the ball so they can drop it!

;-)

 

[Phil E]

30 people?

what makes you think anybody outside the #9 (maybe!) has any interest whatsoever is going on within the confines of the lineout ?

To all those backs its just a bunch of large sweaty people jumping up and down that may get them the ball so they can drop it!

;-)

:biggrin:epper:

 

[Balones]

Seems very clear to me. Jumper goes straight up and uses outside arm. - not straight, option.
Ball thrown straight and jumper uses outside arm -he must have leaned over - FK. No problem if two arms raised.

 

[Decorily]

30 people?

what makes you think anybody outside the #9 (maybe!) has any interest whatsoever is going on within the confines of the lineout ?

To all those backs its just a bunch of large sweaty people jumping up and down that may get them the ball so they can drop it!

;-)

Drop it or kick it back to the opposition! !