[Maul] Maul / Choke tackle

[Tobes]

Hi all

Can't find clarification about the maul forming, so would appreciate your views and opinions.

During a game of 7s, Red take the ball into contact and Blue players hold the ball carrier up. Additional Blue players assist, the Red player is still in possession and not moving anywhere and unable to pass the ball.

The law states that [FONT=fs_blakeregular]A maul begins when a player carrying the ball is held by one or more opponents, and one or more of the ball carrier’s team mates bind on the ball carrier. A maul therefore consists, when it begins, of at least three players, all on their feet; the ball carrier and one player from each team. All the players involved must be caught in or bound to the maul and must be on their feet and moving towards a goal line. Open play has ended.
[/FONT]
http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=17

I'm unsure on what the right award would be here, as no supporting Red player joined into contact.

Thoughts?

 

[crossref]

It's not a maul, and if the ball carrier is still on his feet it's not yet a tackle.. So wait and see what happens..

 

[Dickie E]

It's not a maul, and if the ball carrier is still on his feet it's not yet a tackle.. So wait and see what happens..

and verbally make it clear to the players what you are doing.

 

[DocY]

Hmmm... Are we going to see the birth of uncontested mauls?

 

[Hillbob]

How would that happen DocY?
Red takes the ball into contact, blue binds on and since it´s no tackle red close the passing lines in blue´s line?
Sounds weird and pointless, unless red knows that they lose possession everytime they go into contact (due to incompetence). As long as the BC stays on his feet long enough, there is no way the defending team can form an uncontested maul. One Defender is enough to form a maul.

 

[DocY]

More about trying to retain possession if you recognise one of your players is being choke tackled - if no team mates join, it's not a maul so not a turn over.

As you can probably tell, I'm not a coach.

 

[didds]

1 red (BC) v multiple blues, no maul...

I don't see that this is likely to end up with red getting the ball. Either red gets to ground pretty sharpish and gets rucked past and loses the ball, or gets marched downfield some considerable distance where
- blue strip him of the ball
- get him to ground and ruck over
- the whole thing collapses, ball unavailable and blue get a scrum for going forward.

didds

 

[tim White]

If this group hug becomes static and everyone looks confused you don't have to wait until it collapses or somebody starts hauling people out by their collars; "Never coming out, scrum, team going forwards etc"

 

[ChuckieB]

1 red (BC) v multiple blues, no maul...

I don't see that this is likely to end up with red getting the ball. Either red gets to ground pretty sharpish and gets rucked past and loses the ball, or gets marched downfield some considerable distance where
- blue strip him of the ball
- get him to ground and ruck over
- the whole thing collapses, ball unavailable and blue get a scrum for going forward.

didds

.......Red player to his team mates, "Cheers mates. Thanks for helping me out there. Same again next time?"

 

[didds]

If this group hug becomes static and everyone looks confused you don't have to wait until it collapses or somebody starts hauling people out by their collars; "Never coming out, scrum, team going forwards etc"

yup, of course.

So ball to blue again.

I see no manner in which this "tactic" by red can "work" or what they are achieving. Particularly in 7s where possession is 99% of everything.

didds

 

[Hillbob]

Tim, i´m with you on that one, however a player might ask: "Never coming out of what Sir?"
I think you mean: "Ball unplayable. Scrum..."

DocY, as Didds pointed out, in what scenario would an uncontested maul have a positive outcome? I can´t think of any. Except complete incompetence, meaning you know you´re gonna lose possesion anyway.
Or a "Fun-Law" like no mauls on Tour etc. but those are not representetive.

 

[Pinky]

What do red deserve from this? Nothing, I would suggest as they have failed to keep the ball effectively in play.

 

[tim White]

I could give the full technical answer but almost all players would glaze over, Never coming out covers "unplayable", or I believe 20.4 covers it as well. Either way, I would expect almost every player would go with scrum.

 

[Tobes]

Thanks for your comments and thoughts. All helpful and just confirms what I thought.

No maul, so see what happens. When it goes completely static, blow up and call scrum as its unplayable.

 

[VM75]

More about trying to retain possession if you recognise one of your players is being choke tackled - if no team mates join, it's not a maul so not a turn over.

As you can probably tell, I'm not a coach.

If you were a coach, coach the BC to 'covertly' wrap his legs around his opponents legs & drop his weight to try to collapse the 'not-yet-a-tackle or not-yet-a-maul'

Once everyone has fallen over it's now a tackle & they have to roll away from the ball - which has a great tactical advantage to your 7 a-side team because if the ball can then be played quickly then you should now have a significant numerical advantage somewhere else on the pitch to exploit.

When union eventually evolves into League this won't work, instead we'll simply hear 'held'

 

[VM75]

Thanks for your comments and thoughts. All helpful and just confirms what I thought.

No maul, so see what happens. When it goes completely static, blow up and call scrum as its unplayable.

Or outstare it, my bet is that something will happen, especially if one side needs to win !

 

[ChrisR]

Go to www.worldrugby.org and watch some 7s. This happens often enough. The Red BC (grasped by two ops but on his feet) will fight to get a knee on the ground so that it is now a tackle and the referee will call for the tacklers to release the BC and the Red support will now come in to set the ruck.

One way or another this situation will resolve itself pretty quickly. Until a Red joins to form a maul or the red BC gets a knee on the ground we are in general play and there is no need to intervene. Let it breathe.

 

[thepercy]

I know they are looking to get the turn over scrum in this situation, but maybe another tactic could be to drive the ball carrier back with 2 or 3 defenders, and then in a coordinated effort let/force the ball carrier go to ground and have 1 or 2 drive over the top, back guy takes the ball.

 

[OB..]

In1959 the tackle law read as follows:-[LAWS] Law 16.
A tackle occurs when the holder of the ball in the field of play is held by one or more players of the opposing team so that while he is so held the ball comes in contact with the ground, or there is a moment when he cannot pass or play the ball in any other manner.
(a) When a player is tackled but not brought to the ground, he must immediately release the ball.
(b) The tackled player, if lying on the ground, must immediately release the ball and roll away from it.
(c) It is illegal for any player to pre*vent a tackled player from releas*ing the ball, or getting up after he has released it.[/LAWS]

This prevented the choke tackle, but then in 1969 the law said "a maul [first defined in 1967] ends a tackle". In 1977 the "standing tackle" was dropped.

The aim of all this was to get play to be more continuous after a tackle. We have the Law of Unintended Consequences writ large.