McCaw - the greatest?

[Mad_Dan_Eccles]

Had McCaw played in the era when you could ruck the opposition player who was lying all over the ball on the wrong side of the ruck (which McCaw constantly does), we'll never know how he would have gone with losing the skin off his back every game.

The game changed...would Kel Tremain, Graham Mourie or Michael Jones have been able to play the modern game as well as they played their game?

On the other side of the scrum how would say, Cowboy Shaw have fared as a modern blindside flanker? Training on a crate or two of beer a night might not have improved his fitness to the level needed in the modern game...but he could take (and give) a pretty good slippering down there in the dark.

I mentioned Mourie as he was perhaps sometimes underrated as player but is often regarded as being one of the great AB captains. I certainly don't think McCaw is underrated as a player but wonder if his abilities as captain affected the voting as much as his playing?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Just because a player doesn't have a RWC medal does not eliminate him from being the greatest. RWC's are about teams not individuals

Here are some of the great player of the world who have never won a RWC medal. =Would you discount them from being amoung the greatest in their time?

Colin Meads
Gareth Edwards
Brian Lochore
Ian Kirkpatrick
John Hipwell
Hugo Porta
Mike Gibson
Jean-Pierre Rives
Willie John McBride
Morne DuPlessis
Fran Cotton
Barry John

They all have something in common, don't they...

McCaw is unarguably, the greatest All Black of all time, and probably the greatest player of his time but whether he is the world's greatest player of all time is debatable.

My personal favourite is Mike Gibson, the Irish centre.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

My personal favourite is Mike Gibson, the Irish centre.

Good call.

Mike Gibson good at rugby - terrible at hairstyles.

View attachment 1320

Also liked:-
Blanco
Sella
Papparom Popparam Paperrom Paperrhom..................Paco! :biggrin:
Winterbottom
Campese (he has RWC medal of course )
Lynagh ditto
Little (Walter)
Bunce
Irvine
Bennett
Duckham
Ward
JPR
JJ
Gerald Davies
Mervyn Davies
Jonathan Davies (esp RL :biggrin
Rives

 

[upnunder]

I also think McCaw is the best player of his generation, maybe O'Driscoll pushing him close.

The player that I think changed the face of rugby was Jonah Lomu, his impact for the AB in the World cup was immense, and started the age of the massive wingers.

I agree with Will Carling on the greatest ever player, Gareth Edwards. He had the complete game, and was also lucky to play in an outstanding team.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

The player that I think changed the face of rugby was Jonah Lomu, his impact for the AB in the World cup was immense, and started the age of the massive wingers.

Forgot about JL. Had he been blessed with better health I suspect this thread would be a lot of posts saying no it's Jonah Lomu.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

also lucky to play in an outstanding team.

I wonder how many points Neil Jenkins would have if he'd been similarly blessed.

 

[Dixie]

I wonder how many points Neil Jenkins would have if he'd been similarly blessed.

Fewer. They'd have run more, adn kicked a few for the corners instead of turning to the only attacking weapon they had.

 

[SimonSmith]

Forgot about JL. Had he been blessed with better health I suspect this thread would be a lot of posts saying no it's Jonah Lomu.

I really, really doubt that.
The greatest ever? Not a chance. He had the turning circle of a very very big ocean liner. Great going forwards, but other than that....

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I really, really doubt that.
The greatest ever? Not a chance. He had the turning circle of a very very big ocean liner. Great going forwards, but other than that....

Who then?

 

[Dixie]

Who then?

I personally don't think these awards are meaningful. You can say that [insert name] is the best in his position, but how can you meaningfully compare positions? Can a flanker really be compared to a winger? By what criteria?

Equally, if (say) McCaw is the best openside in the world, and the second best is a New Zealander, how do we know that McCaw is consistently better than his colleague, other than that NZ selectors continue to select him - which may be for his leadership skills?

Interesting to debate candidates, but any "decision" or outcome is meaningless.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Interesting to debate candidates, but any "decision" or outcome is meaningless.

Debate - I agree.

I was interested in who SS considered worthy of the title as opposed to someone he thought wasn't.

 

[SimonSmith]

I just felt Lomu was not even a plausible candidate.

McCaw I can see the argument. Likewise Edwards, Gibson. Hell, you could argue for Irvine if you were a myopic Scot. Sella or Rives.

They're all viable candidates. But Lomu? To paraphrase The Beatles, I doubt if he's even the best winger in NZ history.

 

[voice of reason]

I... To paraphrase The Beatles, I doubt if he's even the best winger in NZ history.

Yes agreed on that - Lomu certainly provided the "Woowwww" moments on attack, however there were plenty of "Waaaahhh" moments on defence.

Personally I think Jeff Wilson is about the best wing NZ has produced

 

[Dickie E]

Personally I think Jeff Wilson is about the best wing NZ has produced

Really? Gregan's bitch? I would rate Kirwan ahead.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Personally I think Jeff Wilson is about the best wing NZ has produced

Grant Batty :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

however there were plenty of "Waaaahhh" moments on defence.

That was Tony Underwood getting thrown into row Q......:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[Drift]

Really? Gregan's bitch? I would rate Kirwan ahead.

Caleb Ralph for me...

Wonder how many bites I will get from that rancid bait??


Whilst I agree that these awards are difficult to judge because each position is different but I think it has something to do with the more "game changing" or "game influencing" performances they put in for the year. On that criteria McCaw would've been ahead of anyone else. He really was immense this year.

 

[voice of reason]

Really? Gregan's bitch? I would rate Kirwan ahead.

Yeah well Goldie's career was bigger than just one missed try
60 tests - 44 Tries
JK - 63 tests 35 tries

Getting back to RMC - I agree with Oli K - A players overall influence in a game is all but impossible to measure. But there are players who are game changers and McCaw certainly has had more of those type of performances than any other AB I can recall since ... 1970!

 

[Bryan]

Getting back to RMC - I agree with Oli K - A players overall influence in a game is all but impossible to measure. But there are players who are game changers and McCaw certainly has had more of those type of performances than any other AB I can recall since ... 1970!

You think he had a bigger influence on his team / the game than Sean Fitzpatrick?

 

[temujin]

Fewer. They'd have run more, adn kicked a few for the corners instead of turning to the only attacking weapon they had.

More, 'cos he'd have kicked more conversions!!