Modify scrum?

[chopper15]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...-is-simply-not-the-answer-in-rugby-union.html

 

[Simon Thomas]

old news - the FranCotton was submitted to IRB months ago.

just the media trying to whip up a "cause celebre" over the Christmas period, after Trvor Flatman's tweet at the weekend and a poor management of the scrum by a poor French referee.

my personal view is that below International / Premiership levels the scrum is on the whole well managed, but that some adjustment is needed to CTPE (CTE ?) and to reduce the 'hit'.

certainly at L5 we report every reset and collapse with reasons why, and if not penalised we report as Non Compliances any illegal bids, early engagement, early shove, FR not straight pushing, and non-credible throw-in by SH. To that end I attended both Group and Federation pre-season training sessions for referees, referee coaches and match observers, where top RFU scrum coaches gave practical demos of the whole "Tower of Power" process.

The National Panel had the same at their pre-season conference.

 

[Rit Hinners]

The way I see it, the scrum has already been greatly depowered.

The refs not calling for a scrum due to the ball becomming "unplayable" under the pile-ups called rucks in the current game (and allowing the pulling of bodies out and scrumhalfs to go digging) has already greatly reduced the number of scrums and therefore the need for skilled props as opposed to more rounded players on the field.

 

[Davet]

Surely they don't come any more rounded than props?

- You keep setting 'em up...

 

[chopper15]

BM quote in today's DT: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/8981403/Cinderella-as-performed-by-the-RFU.html

And as a final note - the scrum - it is a dull, arbitrary farce, now devoid of skill and technique other than shoving and we are sick of it. Paddy O’Brien, sort it in 2012 or step aside for someone who will.

. . . and I dare to say, so say all of us.. Yes?

 

[Phil E]

. . . and I dare to say, so say all of us.. Yes?

No!

I would rather not have you as my official spokesperson....thanks all the same :biggrin:

 

[Davet]

Got bored half way through the "panto", and left.

As to sorting the scrum - just have it square and steady before the ball is put in - don't let the 9 put the ball in until it is. Stand in front of him, between him and the tunnel, and don't let him shove past you. Tell him at the briefing what you will be doing and why, and tell him he cannot put the ball in until you move out of the way.

That's my personal view, anyway.

Not necessarily Society policy.

 

[chopper15]

Got bored half way through the "panto", and left.

As to sorting the scrum - just have it square and steady before the ball is put in - don't let the 9 put the ball in until it is. Stand in front of him, between him and the tunnel, and don't let him shove past you. Tell him at the briefing what you will be doing and why, and tell him he cannot put the ball in until you move out of the way.

That's my personal view, anyway.

Not necessarily Society policy.

. . . . but do you agree with BM's sentiments, Davet?

And Phil, don't you agree with BM or is it me as official spokesman?

 

[Simon Thomas]

Why focus on BM's closing one liner which he has been banging on about for the last few seasons ? If they applied Community scrum management at elite levels, lots of the scrums problems could be solved.

BM's perceptive comments about the commercial basis for the growth of the Game globally, and making English professional and community rugby sustainable, are much more important.

 

[OB..]

Got bored half way through the "panto", and left.

As to sorting the scrum - just have it square and steady before the ball is put in - don't let the 9 put the ball in until it is. Stand in front of him, between him and the tunnel, and don't let him shove past you. Tell him at the briefing what you will be doing and why, and tell him he cannot put the ball in until you move out of the way.

That's my personal view, anyway.

Not necessarily Society policy.

Then it should be! (IMHO)

 

[chopper15]

re. SimonT: . . .lots of the scrums problems could be solved. ( my underline ).


. . . . but do you agree with BM's sentiments on the scrum, Simon?

 

[OB..]

BM quote in today's DT: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/8981403/Cinderella-as-performed-by-the-RFU.html

And as a final note - the scrum - it is a dull, arbitrary farce, now devoid of skill and technique other than shoving and we are sick of it. Paddy O’Brien, sort it in 2012 or step aside for someone who will.

. . . and I dare to say, so say all of us.. Yes?

I want the scrum improved, but it is ridiculous to say POB's job should depend on that one item.

 

[Simon Thomas]

re. SimonT: . . .lots of the scrums problems could be solved. ( my underline ).


. . . . but do you agree with BM's sentiments on the scrum, Simon?

I cannot agree with a journalistic inflammatory sign-off one-liner, as I require a more substantive objective debate on the subject - which we have done with Brian in the past both online and at a Hampshire Society meeting. Brian is using journalistic licence to make his request but he knows as well as anyone that POB's IRB role performance is not measured on a single item of Law compliance.

I am far more interested in the IRB's eventual response to the Fran Cotton et al paper, direct input Brian has had himself and the follow consultation that is schdeduled to occur.

 

[Simon Thomas]

As to sorting the scrum - just have it square and steady before the ball is put in - don't let the 9 put the ball in until it is. .

this is standard refereeing and taught at basic Society levels surely ? at Development levels this woiuld be a non-compliance item on the assessment report

Stand in front of him, between him and the tunnel, and don't let him shove past you. Tell him at the briefing what you will be doing and why, and tell him he cannot put the ball in until you move out of the way. .

one effective management technique promoted to young development referees by Clare Daniels recently.
I get the #9s to help me get the scrum static and stay square !

Not necessarily Society policy.

and discussed by Hampshire Referees (DaveT not present) under the leadership of our TDO KML1.

 

[Davet]

teach me to attend more meetings...:redface:

 

[chopper15]

Thanks again for the additional info, Simon & Co.