mono-ruck v tackle-with-offside lines

[crossref]

here's the change to the Ruck Law that was trialled in the GLTs

5. Law 16 Ruck
A ruck commences when at least one player is on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground (tackled player, tackler). At this point the offside lines are created. Players on their feet may use their hands to pick up the ball as long as this is immediate. As soon as an opposition player arrives, no hands can be used.
Rationale: To make the ruck simpler for players and referees.

As a result of the GLT they decided to leave the Ruck Law unchanged, and instead made a change to the Tackle Law Here's the Law that they introduced last month

[LAWS]
Law 14 (tackle)
14.10 Offside lines are created at a tackle when at least one player is on their feet and over the ball, which is on the ground. Each team’s offside line runs parallel to the goal line through the hindmost point of any player in the tackle or on their feet over the ball. If that point is on or behind the goal line, the offside line for that team is the goal line.[/LAWS]

So a mono-ruck (MR) v a tackle-with-offside-lines (TWOL) What's the difference? Does it make any difference ?

I have been thinking about this. Seems to me there are three things to consider

1 - Handling. I first thought this was the main difference (Normally you can't handle the ball in the ruck, but you can in a tackle) HOWEVER I now recall that in the GLT they created a special kind of ruck, where you could handle it. So - in this respect, the M-R and the TWOL are the same

2- Ending. The conditions for ending a tackle and ending a ruck ending are quite different

a TWOL ends when
[LAWS]A ruck is formed.
A player on their feet from either team gains possession of the ball and moves away or passes or kicks the ball.
The ball leaves the tackle area.
The ball is unplayable. [/LAWS]

a MR ends when
[LAWS]When the ball has been clearly won by a team at the ruck, and is available to be played, the referee calls “use it”, after which the ball must be played away from the ruck within five seconds. Sanction: Scrum.

The ruck ends and play continues when the ball leaves the ruck or when the ball in the ruck is on or over the goal line.

The ruck ends when the ball becomes unplayable. If the referee decides that the ball will probably not emerge within a reasonable time, a scrum is awarded.[/LAWS]

That's different - there is the USE IT command at a ruck but not a tackle




BUT the last area, which actually most intrigues me, revolves around the players who are offside

In a Mono-Ruck offside players are offside at a ruck - so

[LAWS]RETIRING FROM A RUCK, MAUL, SCRUM OR LINEOUT
A player who is offside at a ruck, maul, scrum or lineout remains offside, even after the ruck, maul, scrum or lineout has ended.
The player can be put onside only if:
That player immediately retires behind the applicable offside line; or
An opposition player carries the ball five metres in any direction; or
An opposition player kicks the ball.
An offside player may be penalised if that player:
Fails to retire without undue delay and benefits from being put onside in a more advantageous position; or Interferes with play; or Moves towards the ball.[/LAWS]

But in a Tackle-With-Offside-Lines - offside players are merely offside in open play.
[LAWS]An offside player may be penalised, if that player:
Interferes with play; or
Moves forwards towards the ball; or
Was in front of a team-mate who kicked the ball and fails to retire immediately to an imaginary line
[/LAWS]

The key difference -- there's no need to retire. Like after a kick, offside players are entitled to stay where they are, and wait to be put onside by an opponent.


So, in summary, I think the new Law has some interesting differences from what was trialled.

What do you think?

 

[didds]

So presumably at a MR, an "offside" defender can stand beside the first receiver and clobber him when he gets the ball, or intercept the pass?

So we ARE back to the Italian no-ruck scenario?

didds

 

[ChrisR]

From the GLTs:

[LAWS]5. Law 16 Ruck
A ruck commences when at least one player is on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground (tackled player, tackler). At this point the offside lines are created. Players on their feet may use their hands to pick up the ball as long as this is immediate. As soon as an opposition player arrives, no hands can be used.
Rationale: To make the ruck simpler for players and referees.[/LAWS]

Eliminating this changes things. Now, if the ops don't engage to form the ruck the ball can be picked op or handled at any time even when there are multiple players from one side stacked over the ball.

I'm not sure what this means. Does this mean 'arrives in the tackle area' or does it mean 'engages'? I can see a lengthy debate on RR in the works.

 

[Thunderhorse1986]

You're offside, then you interfere with play, you get penalised?

 

[crossref]

It's always the case that you mustn't interfere with play while offside ,
.. the key issue is whether you have to retire

Viz.

Offside from a kick , you can stay just where you are, and the moment the oppo pass the ball you are onside and can play

Offside from a ruck, and if you did that that you would be loitering .. you have to be retiring ..making an effort to get onside


Offside at a tackle ... is offside in open play, so like a kick you can stay where you are , waiting to be put onside

 

[didds]

hence my #2

and we are back to the Italian no-ruck defense again - a defender can run past the offside line and stand between passer and receiver. Orr if not run pass if already "offside" just not retreat to "his" side of the tackle.


???


didds

 

[Rich_NL]

Blocking passing lines would count as interfering with play, no?

 

[thepercy]

hence my #2

and we are back to the Italian no-ruck defense again - a defender can run past the offside line and stand between passer and receiver. Orr if not run pass if already "offside" just not retreat to "his" side of the tackle.


???


didds

Wouldn't this be considered interfering with play?

 

[didds]

Well, that seems logical indeed. It depends on what "degree "of offside this line at the tackle is - whether it is like a ruck except its not a ruck for starters. Its entirely unclear to me now!


didds