MPs back calls for English national anthem

[didds]

IIRC no away team had their anthem played during those times, because of this reason

didds

 

[crossref]

wikipedia tells me

When Irish internationals were played alternately in Belfast and Dublin, the UK national anthem was played for matches in Belfast and the national anthem of Ireland "Amhrán na bhFiann" was played for matches in Dublin.[citation needed] No anthem was played at away games.

On 27 February 1954, Ireland played Scotland at Ravenhill in Belfast. The eleven Republic-based players protested "God Save the Queen", and an abbreviated anthem known as "the Salute" was instead played. Ireland beat Scotland 6–0, and did not play in Northern Ireland again until 2007.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_national_rugby_union_team

 

[L'irlandais]

I agree crossref only Wiki isn't always reliable as a source :

(It would not be until 1954, when McCarthy was captain and reported that several on the team would not be standing for God Save the Queen, that Ireland moved their home games permanently to Dublin.)

note that the 1948 Grand Slam decider against Wales was played in Belfast without any controversy.

So now a days, players and fans are more interested in the rugby, than in political correctness. I for one am glad, rugby is shaking off the shackles of politics in sport.

Between 1877 -1889 7 Ireland matches were played at Ormeau, Belfast
1891 - 1894 3 matches played at Ballynafeigh, Belfast
1898-1921 11 matches played at Balmoral Showgrounds, Belfast
1924 - 2007 16 matches played at Ravenhill, Belfast.
Source ESPNscrum(dot)com. http://stats.espnscrum.com/statsgur...team=3;template=results;type=team;view=ground

Looking at the match list, it is not really every second home match played in Belfast. Far from it. Anyway for 35 Belfast home games the British anthem was played, with little thought to players sensibilities. For 1 match (1954, against Scotland). A shortened salute was played.

My original point was that should England get a new anthem, it won't inspire 100% of the population.

 

[Rushforth]

http://www.blakearchive.org/exist/blake/archive/object.xq?objectid=milton.a.illbk.02&java=no

"The MILL has a function inferior to the creative Plow: it is Reason working on the ideas furnished by the Imagination. Thus it symbolizes Aristotelean logic, the basis of dogmatism.

...

In Milton, the mill's are Satan's, whose inferior work is contrasted with the creative agriculture of Palamabron. When Satan undertakes the harrowing so disasterously, Palambron shifts to Satan's mills ("the easier task"); but under his influence the servants of the mills get intoxicated, and Los stops the grinding (8:4-23). The "dark Satanic Mills" of the opening hymn (1:8) visualise as the enormous mills of the Industrial Revolution, but signify the philosophy under which all of England was suffering.

..."

https://archive.org/details/ABlakeDictionary-DamonS.Foster

 

[SimonSmith]

It must have been very much the same time that England crowds started to sing Swing Low ...

England started that tune when Chris Oti had a blinder against Ireland in '88

 

[John3822]

How about just changing the tune for the current one? Billy Connolly once suggested the theme to 'The Archers'. Can't get more English......:biggrin:

 

[Pegleg]

So what is your reference source?
The BBC also go with the industrial revolution angle.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35304508

Numerous books on Blake, My Eng lit prof. Blake was a London boy, He did not venture far. The mill owners would have certainly been included in the classes that he was attacking but it was the Ruling elite specifically the centres of learning and control (the universities and the establihment including its churches). Symbols of the control and oppression of the people.

 

[crossref]

Numerous books on Blake, My Eng lit prof. Blake was a London boy, He did not venture far. The mill owners would have certainly been included in the classes that he was attacking but it was the Ruling elite specifically the centres of learning and control (the universities and the establihment including its churches). Symbols of the control and oppression of the people.

was he a scrum-half?

 

[Phil E]

Numerous books on Blake, My Eng lit prof. Blake was a London boy, He did not venture far. The mill owners would have certainly been included in the classes that he was attacking but it was the Ruling elite specifically the centres of learning and control (the universities and the establihment including its churches). Symbols of the control and oppression of the people.

....or maybe he just wrote about what he saw?

 

[Rushforth]

My Eng lit prof.

James Dixon?

 

[Pegleg]

....or maybe he just wrote about what he saw?

In the south east of England. Indeed he did.

 

[Rushforth]

In the south east of England. Indeed he did.

Southwark.

"The factory could have driven independent traditional millers out of business, but it was destroyed in 1791 by fire, perhaps deliberately. London's independent millers celebrated with placards reading, "Success to the mills of ALBION but no Albion Mills."[10] Opponents referred to the factory as satanic, and accused its owners of adulterating flour and using cheap imports at the expense of British producers. A contemporary illustration of the fire shows a devil squatting on the building.[11] The mills were a short distance from Blake's home."

I realise that this does not fit your Weltanschauung, but apparently there were mills even in big cities and the south of England during the industrial revolution. Clearly Blake would not have had access to imagery of other mills elsewhere, what with there being no photographers back then. Oh wait, he was an engraver himself? Perhaps people back then had other ways of making images too!

 

[4eyesbetter]

Are you really having a scrap over the finer details of Blake? Can we do Lady Chatterley's Lover next month?

 

[Rushforth]

Are you really having a scrap over the finer details of Blake? Can we do Lady Chatterley's Lover next month?

Is that the one where Sean Bean doesn't die for a change?

 

[Pegleg]

Southwark.

"The factory could have driven independent traditional millers out of business, but it was destroyed in 1791 by fire, perhaps deliberately. London's independent millers celebrated with placards reading, "Success to the mills of ALBION but no Albion Mills."[10] Opponents referred to the factory as satanic, and accused its owners of adulterating flour and using cheap imports at the expense of British producers. A contemporary illustration of the fire shows a devil squatting on the building.[11] The mills were a short distance from Blake's home."

I realise that this does not fit your Weltanschauung, but apparently there were mills even in big cities and the south of England during the industrial revolution. Clearly Blake would not have had access to imagery of other mills elsewhere, what with there being no photographers back then. Oh wait, he was an engraver himself? Perhaps people back then had other ways of making images too!

The extent of mills in his area were nothing like the mills in the North west that are said by some to be the Dark Satanic ones. Perhaps thinking is going back that way but not in my time. When people write that style of writing they more often transfer the imagery as part of the process. But Hey ho enjoy.

 

[Rushforth]

The extent of mills in his area were nothing like the mills in the North west that are said by some to be the Dark Satanic ones. Perhaps thinking is going back that way but not in my time. When people write that style of writing they more often transfer the imagery as part of the process. But Hey ho enjoy.

So what you are trying to argue is that he used the term "dark satanic mills" as not only an allegory, but also for something he had never seen himself. Edit: bad wording on my part, but I hope you understand.

It makes more sense to me that a poetic allegorical phrase is based on a literal interpretation first, and perhaps means "something" meant by the author. If it hadn't meant something literal too, the man might as well have written "dark satanic chocolate", after all.

Did he mean more than that? Well this Jesus chappy (did anybody see JC? Changes water into wine) gets described as a "lamb of God", so I think it is fair to say that perhaps Blake did mean more than just a burned-out mill in Southwark.

It remains a great leap to use the term "Oxbridge" just because somebody else did. Winchester much?

 

[crossref]

'there's nothing patriotic about Blake's Jerusalem'
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/theres-nothing-patriotic-about-william-blakes-jerusalem/

 

[SimonSmith]

Are you really having a scrap over the finer details of Blake? Can we do Lady Chatterley's Lover next month?

Sadly Her Ladyship beat us to it

 

[Phil E]

'there's nothing patriotic about Blake's Jerusalem'
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/theres-nothing-patriotic-about-william-blakes-jerusalem/

Who cares about patriotism?
We just want a good tune we can all bellow out at the top of our lungs.

I vote for "Hearts of Oak".

 

[4eyesbetter]

Sadly Her Ladyship beat us to it

Thank God there's someone here who knows an open goal when he sees one