My first assessment

[gillburt]

Had my first assessment on Saturday.

I was delighted to have it, as I've been reffing for 5 months now and was getting worried I was getting in to bad habits.
I was very pleased with the Assessor's feedback, both the +ve and especially the -ve.

There was one bit of feedback that I wanted to get your collective opinions on however.

I have a habit of sometimes tapping a player on the shoulder if they are doing something wrong. i.e. not bind properly at a ruck, offside and needing to get "back round". I have found it a useful way of getting a players attention, especially when "green 16" does work, cos the player doesn't know their number.

The assessor said I should stop it, as it just looks really messy and not good. I took his point. Then got home to watch the Wales/Ire match and saw the ref do exactly what I had been doing a couple of times.


I can see the point of not doing it, but wanted to get a wider opinion. Is it really a faux pas? To-date I've found it a useful management tool, especially for offside players in rucks/mauls who are immaterial but "could" become material.


Thoughts?

 

[andyscott]

I am no expert but, I would say not at a ruck or maul as you would be to close to see other things happening.

Tell them, ping them, that will stop them

At international level the 2 AR would be checking for offsides etc so the ref can get close as he like IMO.

 

[Chris P]

I guess where the assessor might be coming from is that "invasion of personal space" is a tricky issue.
I am a tactile person by nature, and would see nothing wrong with what you are doing, and never had a problem with the ref putting a hand on my shoulder at scrum time, when he was explaining something to me.
I know of people who hate this, and would take the opposite view.
Horses for courses I suppose, but if you are comfortable with it, then carry on until the player gives you a look, or similar, to indicate you should stop.

Junior rugby, in this sad day and age, is a whole different matter, and any "unnecessary" contact must be avoided. If you are doing both, might be worth being hands off during your early days of reffing.

Well, that's my opinion for what it's worth (probably not a lot )

Oh, and well done on a good assessment!!

 

[Phil E]

At U19 and below its a definite no-no.

I would also suggest that if you are close enough to tap them on the shoulder, then you are far too close.

If they don't know its you and think it's the opposition then they may lash out.

ATP, they should know their position/number.

 

[Davet]

In general terms I would suggest that managing with voice and whistle is generally better, but would not lay down a hard and fast prohibition against touching a player to attract attention. It can work, and there is no point in deliberately ignoring a tool that is available.

But the circumstances in which you would use it would be unusual, rare perhaps. It would not be the norm.

It sounds as though it was something you did more than once in the game, rather than more than once a season - which may mean you are getting to rely on a tactile approach - not all the time, but as an option that you may be too fond of - maybe an easy solution rather than a good one?

 

[OB..]

In general terms I would suggest that managing with voice and whistle is generally better, but would not lay down a hard and fast prohibition against touching a player to attract attention. It can work, and there is no point in deliberately ignoring a tool that is available.

But the circumstances in which you would use it would be unusual, rare perhaps. It would not be the norm.

It sounds as though it was something you did more than once in the game, rather than more than once a season - which may mean you are getting to rely on a tactile approach - not all the time, but as an option that you may be too fond of - maybe an easy solution rather than a good one?

Bother. I can't think of a way of improving those comments. :clap:

 

[gillburt]

It sounds as though it was something you did more than once in the game, rather than more than once a season - which may mean you are getting to rely on a tactile approach - not all the time, but as an option that you may be too fond of - maybe an easy solution rather than a good one?

Yes, it is something I do more than once in a game, especially at rucks/mauls where I use it sometimes send players round the back, as I try to keep the game moving.

I know players have said they like/prefer the way I manage them (i.e. preventative rather than pinging all the time)

Guess though that it is not a good habit, and as you say, might become an easy solution rather than a good one (my emphasis in the above quote). Hadn't thought of it like that.

Something to work on.....

 

[gillburt]

Oh, and well done on a good assessment!!

Thanks.

I am now a qualified blind, biased, stupid, fool

 

[Simon Thomas]

I advise a no-touch policy (even for adults) but use use signals & verbals (blue #7 move, release his neck, go to back, round you go etc. Excellent you are using preventatives but keep it signals & assertive loud verbals. if they don't react PING.

As my learned colleagues have said already it would rare anyway and if you can touch the player you are too close to the action.

 

[beckett50]

I occasionally touch a player when speaking to them at down time e.g. when approaching a lineout I'll rest a hand on the player and say either words of praise or gentle warning.

What I would say is, that if it works for you then great, but you need to get in the habit - in active play, at least - of using player number and colour. It may be worth, pre-match, telling the skippers to make sure that each player knows what number is on their back

 

[lawsons]

At the level you doing it probably is useful and effective and I doubt anyone minds as they are all out for a jolly anyway.

However, I don't think it would be a good habit to get into for when you move up the leagues so probably better to get out the habit now.

 

[Dixie]

At the level you doing it probably is useful and effective and I doubt anyone minds as they are all out for a jolly anyway.

Either London's lower levels are in general out of line with the games I ocasionally did (Chobham and Lightwater), or else you've been away from the coal face for too long, Lawsons. While players knew their limitations in terms of skill and fitness, I never noticed any diminution of competitiveness at Levels 11-13 compared to those I see now at 8 & 9.

 

[Chris P]

Interesting comment about using numbers on their back.
I reffed an under 13's game a week ago, and one of the teams did not have any numbers on their shirts.
Is there anything in the laws about being able to identify players?

 

[lawsons]

well the games I did at level 13 I would be flattering them if I described it as rugby. However, they all enjoyed it and were very forgiving about the errors I made or bad habits I had obtained. Those in glass houses can't throw stones after all.

 

[OB..]

Those in glass houses can't throw stones after all.

"People who live in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones."

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

"People who live in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones."

A quote from Steve Walsh?

 

[Russ W]

The thing that worries me the most about putting a hand on a player is a concern about having a player in an agitated, competitive state lashing out and hitting a referee. I've seen a player's teammates try to put an arm around a player or give him a pat on the back and get slapped away. If that slap is on another player, it might call for maybe a yellow or red card, if anything... but if it's a ref that is struck, even if they don't know it was a ref, it could mean an end to a rugby career. I would not want that on my head.

 

[Donal1988]

I got called on this recently. An underage game where there was a brawl between two players others made a ring as if this was a schoolyard fight. I waded in and pulled them apart. Assessor said NEVER touch a player.

We had a referee put a hand on a guy during a similar situation to try calm him. Player though it was an opponent and lashed out. Referee got a black eye and player got a suspension.

 

[Phil E]

I got called on this recently. An underage game where there was a brawl between two players others made a ring as if this was a schoolyard fight. I waded in and pulled them apart. Assessor said NEVER touch a player.

We had a referee put a hand on a guy during a similar situation to try calm him. Player though it was an opponent and lashed out. Referee got a black eye and player got a suspension.

I think in that situation safety of the players comes first, I would have done the same as you.........I also think the physical size of the ref is relevant?

 

[Donal1988]

Apparently what I should have done is red card both (which I did) but only after getting captains to break it up. I dont know how big the other referee was who got hit (could be an urban legend to frighten 20 year old referees ) but I certainly wasnt happy to allow play to go on. To be honest I thought he was a rubbish assessor. Said I did "ok in everything" and gave me average for everything.