Narrow studs

[Accylad]

Is anyone else seeing this?

In Several recent matches I have noticed players wearing boots with studs that are far too narrow, much narrower than the 10 mm that is required. So far I've just informed that they need to get them changed but it's happening so often but I'm beginning to wonder whether I should take stronger action. anybody else experiencing similar?

Of course all previous refs have not mentioned anything.....

 

[Taff]

... In Several recent matches I have noticed players wearing boots with studs that are far too narrow, much narrower than the 10 mm that is required. ... anybody else experiencing similar?

Funnily enough I saw it happen last Friday night - for the first time ever.

U15 District cup game, they had an "neutral ref" (a WRU Level 3 Ref - so he knows his stuff) as I am the team manager. While doing the PMB, the Ref pointed out that one of the players had football studs in his boots, and he wouldn't be allowed to play in them till the studs were changed. Sure enough, he didn't have 2 sets of spare studs so he just swapped boots with a sub, and I grabbed my chance to have a closer look. They were definitely illegal for rugby; I would guess they were 5mm wide at the tip.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Lots of this up here in RL land. Bring back the stud gauge!

 

[matty1194]

In Several recent matches I have noticed players wearing boots with studs that are far too narrow, much narrower than the 10 mm that is required. So far I've just informed that they need to get them changed but it's happening so often but I'm beginning to wonder whether I should take stronger action. anybody else experiencing similar? Of course all previous refs have not mentioned anything.....

Lets be honest here Accylad if you put your head above the parapet and at every game refused to allow a player with incorrect studs to take the field and teams were reduced by a couple of boys at every one of your games and those clubs then spoke to your referee Society and said, hang on a minute why is he doing this.

Do you really think your Society or CB would back your stance and support you in removing these studs/players from a game or do you think they would bury there own heads in the sand and have a quiet word with you about your over exuberance for checking studs.

Now I have seen the effects of narrow studs first hand, I have the hole in my leg to prove it, I moved quicker at the next breakdown instead of lying there :wink: and it is a very noble stance your taking but I just dont see your local Society/CB/RFU/IRB/WR supporting you.

I await to be proven wrong.

Lots of this up here in RL land. Bring back the stud gauge!

Agree with this as well but make it a job for the clubs to do with the Captain informing the referee that all his players studs conform to the correct size with the referee able to do a % check of players boots 5 minutes before KO, if any players are found to be wearing illegal studs those players are not allowed to take the field, starting with one of the % being the Captain.

If more than 3-5 players fail the check then dock the team points, the clubs and the players will soon learn.

 

[SimonSmith]

If I knew my referee was right, I'd back him.

Signed, Society President.

 

[Taff]

... it is a very noble stance your taking but I just dont see your local Society/CB/RFU/IRB/WR supporting you.

I'd be amazed if his Society didn't back him.

It's a player safety issue after all, and Regulation 12 was brought in for a reason.

 

[menace]

If my society didn't back me then I'd just show them this picture as to what the wrong studs can do...simples.View attachment 3165
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-tackled-footballer-wearing-bladed-boots.html

 

[Decorily]

See attached.

 

[TheBFG]

I'm guessing these are the studs on the "bright" Nike boots???

I've also seen these and make a point of telling players they don't comply, I tell them they need changing. At some point I will change that to, you're not playing with those studs in your boots change them!

 

[Taff]

If my society didn't back me then I'd just show them this picture as to what the wrong studs can do...simples.

Why wouldn't any Society back a Ref? I don't get it; it's a player welfare issue and safety comes first. End of story.

Decorilys PDF just confirms it in writing.

 

[Decorily]

Why wouldn't any Society back a Ref? I don't get it; it's a player welfare issue and safety comes first. End of story.

Decorilys PDF just confirms it in writing.

Indeed it does confirm in writing....not that it is not already confirmed!

Law 4.5 (a) states that referee "must inspect" etc.

How could any Society etc. NOT back you?

 

[matty1194]

If my society didn't back me then I'd just show them this picture as to what the wrong studs can do...simples.View attachment 3165
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-tackled-footballer-wearing-bladed-boots.html

In the OP he specifically mentioned studs, if we were talking about blades and football then this photo would be relevant.

I have seen first hand and have got the hole to prove that illegal studs can cause damage but lets be honest here even the correctly manufactured studs can cause damage as well.

I've also seen these and make a point of telling players they don't comply, I tell them they need changing. At some point I will change that to, you're not playing with those studs in your boots change them!

My edit - Even a referee as Senior as BFG who has been around these parishes long before me still only advises players that they are incorrect studs.

 

[Taff]

... Even a referee as Senior as BFG who has been around these parishes long before me still only advises players that they are incorrect studs.

Can you imagine the shit-storm that would engulf you, if a player got sliced open (eg in Post 7) by a stud you knew was illegal - but still allowed on the pitch?

 

[Browner]

Previous threads.

Maybe they should merge ?????

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?18475-Nike-Illegal-Studs&highlight=Nike+stud

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?17960-New-Nike-FG-studs&highlight=Nike+stud

 

[Accylad]

I'm guessing these are the studs on the "bright" Nike boots???

I've also seen these and make a point of telling players they don't comply, I tell them they need changing. At some point I will change that to, you're not playing with those studs in your boots change them!

This is exactly the point I am at. I keep seeing them, I tell them they need to change them because one day the ref may just say "no". I am slightly worried about allowing what I know not to comply to take the field and seeing that sliced open leg I get more worried. When do I start to say - change them or don't play? My choice I know.

I have no doubt that the Society would back me if I said "you don't play" to one or more players. As has been said, how could they not - they don't comply.

I think I will raise with the chairman for discussion.

 

[Accylad]

Lets be honest here Accylad if you put your head above the parapet and at every game refused to allow a player with incorrect studs to take the field and teams were reduced by a couple of boys at every one of your games and those clubs then spoke to your referee Society and said, hang on a minute why is he doing this.

Do you really think your Society or CB would back your stance and support you in removing these studs/players from a game or do you think they would bury there own heads in the sand and have a quiet word with you about your over exuberance for checking studs.

Interesting.

Well I think they would back me. i am not a new ref and I think pretty well respected and not given to "over exuberance". I have yet to say no to these boots but if I saw one of those studs in a boot with 5 or 8 legal ones I think I would ask for that one to be changed and I bet it would be done without question.

We are being given a problem by players thoughtlessly playing in football boots. Why should we carry the monkey? We have to check studs. If a player were injured by a stud that did not comply following an inspection a lawyer would have a field day whether or not the illegal stud were identified.

I think lots of refs don't mention what they should know is a set of illegal studs.

So, do we care that players are playing in illegal kit or not?

 

[menace]

In the OP he specifically mentioned studs, if we were talking about blades and football then this photo would be relevant.

I have seen first hand and have got the hole to prove that illegal studs can cause damage but lets be honest here even the correctly manufactured studs can cause damage as well.

Quite right matty, that the article refers to blade types, BUT it's still relevant as I did mention that this is the sort of damage that the incorrect (also meaning damaged/bured) stud 'could' cause. My point being that If I decide that a boot is dangerous and not to be used then it's for a good reason to prevent such an injury.

You want to let known illegal boots while you referee, then that's your call and your liability.

I also agree, that any boot and any stud can cause damage. But if the WR specifically outlaw certain types then I'm obliged to comply with enacting that law for the safety of all players.

 

[matty1194]

seeing that sliced open leg I get more worried.

Mate, that picture involves a football player and a set of bladed boots not like the ones you described in your OP but I know were you are coming from.

 

[matty1194]

If I knew my referee was right, I'd back him.

Signed, Society President.

Interestingly when a Canadian referee asked a similar question this is what happened to him.

I can tell you that my union completely ignored my e-mail when I asked them the question of whether I should not allow players to use boots with those studs installed. I contacted the head of referees as well as a member of Rugby Quebec. My guess is that they don't want to get their hands dirty and tell players that they can't use the boots they bought.

So not all Societies choose to back there referees to the hilt.

 

[menace]

Matty....just to prove a point, I know it's not exactly the same situation but get the back of a pen and quickly run it across your thigh with a bit of force. No harm. Now get a nail, the pointy end, and with the same force quickly run it across the same spot. Any difference?

My point being that you reduce that surface area and more damage will result. Obviously the scientists have figures out the boundaries of stud diameter that is less likely to cause too much damage when applied with some force to the human flesh.