[Scrum] New scrum law to be introduced immediately, apparently...

[tewdric]

https://www.facebook.com/985866721486651/posts/2893557564050881/

 

[crossref]

Has anyone noticed it happening?

 

[didds]

what happening - sorry?

the placing of heads (top of skull) onto oppo shoulders? yes - for ages at the elite level.

At the community level? No.

Refs stopping this practice - no. cos at community I don't see it, and i don't see a lot of elite level stuff

didds

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I assume the hooker putting his/her head on the oppos shoulder is the more at risk?

 

[chbg]

The position of FR heads certainly occurs in the Community game, as they copy TV rugby; but I am almost certain that they do not know why the 'elite' do it. More a case of having something to lean against?

 

[crossref]

The position of FR heads certainly occurs in the Community game, as they copy TV rugby; but I am almost certain that they do not know why the 'elite' do it. More a case of having something to lean against?

Why do the elite do it ?

 

[chbg]

Why do the elite do it ?

"World Rugby has banned ‘axial loading’, a process of concentrating scrum power on the opposing hooker instead of allowing it to be diffused along the length of the shoulder of players in the front row."

"a hooker will not be allowed to lean and “deload” the weight of the entire forwards onto the shoulder of the opposition hooker at the “BIND” call from the referee."

 

[crossref]

So the idea is that it hurts the oppo shoulder more than it hurts your head ?

Craxy

 

[Dickie E]

thank God for Facebook ... otherwise we'd never know what is going on

 

[Dickie E]

The position of FR heads certainly occurs in the Community game, as they copy TV rugby; but I am almost certain that they do not know why the 'elite' do it. More a case of having something to lean against?

so they can rub their stubble on their opponent's ear

 

[Rich_NL]

So the idea is that it hurts the oppo shoulder more than it hurts your head ?

Craxy

Not really, it destabilises the opposition hooker because you can carry more load right along your spine than parallel to it.

Imagine doing a squat with a weighted barbell, then shifting half of the plates one one side to the other and trying again. Same weight, but much harder and far more likely to injure your back/shoulder/neck.

 

[ChrisR]

I'll take a guess at "Why" . . . .

Under the previous scrum engagement sequence of CTPE hookers would act as the 'brake' so their props could set up in the 'power' position and lean in to get the hit. This worked 'coz there was enough distance at "Pause" to let them drop in on engage.

Under CBS with the front row ear-to-ear there is no room to drop in on "Set". It has taken some time for the front rows to figure it out but the props need to have their feet back at "Set" or they'll be in a bad position. If the hooker tries to act as the brake he's going to be the one in a bad position at "Set". So . . . .

Props start with outside foot up and at "Bind" they take the pressure with a stiff arm bind and move that foot back to where they want it on "set". The hooker, keeping both feet back, leans in on "Bind" and helps take the pressure with his head on the top of his ops shoulder.

Of course, this all conjecture and they could be doing it just to be dicks.

 

[Dickie E]

Props start with outside foot up and at "Bind" they take the pressure with a stiff arm bind and move that foot back to where they want it on "set".

I am certainly seeing a lot more of this than previously. I assume it is legal.

 

[Rich_NL]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/nzr-chief-scientist-and-mike-ross-explain-axial-loading/

Here's a shorter explanation: https://twitter.com/MikeRoss03/status/1148560678405455872

 

[Pablo]

Nothing on WR home page, laws microsite, Facebook or twitter. While it’s entirely possible that WR’s comms department sucks, I have to treat with scepticism the idea that they would have produced a video but then not published it themselves.

It’s the off-season up here, so “immediate effect” isn’t that immediate, but I’m changing nothing until I see this communicated via an official channel.

 

[tewdric]

The thing that doesn't tend to be referred is the requirement for props to support their own weight on at least one foot. If they have both feet back they cannot do this.

In my experience over 20 years playing tight five most refs at grassroots level don't understand how the scrum works and what props do to gain an advantage.

As a relatively new ref I try to go through the following checklist as the scrum is setting and it is covered (quickly) in PMB:

Crouch:

Six shoulders visible
Heads not below hips
Props supporting own weight "tower of power"
Temple to temple
No hookers heads on shoulders (just added)

Bind:

Props still supporting own weight
Long binds on back or side
No pushing
Feet, hips, shoulders all square

Set:

Tight head not binding short on arm and pushing down
Loosehead not boring in (although that's often a symptom of tight heads pushing down..)
Ball in straight ish
Positive hook


I'd be interested to hear how the experienced refs here approach it. Anything to add to the above that there is realistically time to assess and act upon?

 

[Dickie E]

The thing that doesn't tend to be referred is the requirement for props to support their own weight on at least one foot. If they have both feet back they cannot do this.

[LAWS]Each front-row player must have both their feet on the ground, with their weight firmly on at least one foot. [/LAWS]

do these 2 statements mean the same thing?

 

[Marc Wakeham]

thank God for Facebook ... otherwise we'd never know what is going on

WRU has sent this out to refs.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Memo

 

[Marc Wakeham]

The thing that doesn't tend to be referred is the requirement for props to support their own weight on at least one foot. If they have both feet back they cannot do this.

In my experience over 20 years playing tight five most refs at grassroots level don't understand how the scrum works and what props do to gain an advantage.

As a relatively new ref I try to go through the following checklist as the scrum is setting and it is covered (quickly) in PMB:

Crouch:

Six shoulders visible
Heads not below hips
Props supporting own weight "tower of power"
Temple to temple
No hookers heads on shoulders (just added)

Bind:

Props still supporting own weight
Long binds on back or side
No pushing
Feet, hips, shoulders all square

Set:

Tight head not binding short on arm and pushing down
Loosehead not boring in (although that's often a symptom of tight heads pushing down..)
Ball in straight ish
Positive hook


I'd be interested to hear how the experienced refs here approach it. Anything to add to the above that there is realistically time to assess and act upon?

Agree basically with the list. Just a question If they have not got long binds: "What action, if any, will you take?"