[Law] New Touch Laws!!

[chbg]

We've lost one opportunity to explain the definition of 'directly into touch'!

"World Rugby has approved minor adjustments in law relating to Law 5 (time) and Law 18 (touch) following consideration of unintended consequences of current law in specific circumstances":

https://www.world.rugby/news/639576...phkqhdzeplpdh10ja0nn97tf4fxwqur1i3vns0pvfcuvu

Law 5.7c The 12 year-old has finally been brought to book!

Law 18.8c Something that I can hardly imagine occurring, but it must have done so once.

Personally I am happy with both.

 

[Flish]

So if it goes directly in to touch via an in-direct route we still have the line out? Got it ;-)

 

[crossref]

Nice to see confirmation that "directly " means without bouncing
Though not quite sure why anyone needed that confirmation as it is in the definitions, and has always meant that

A welcome Law change

 

[Dickie E]

In practice this will mean: Ball is kicked from a penalty – A player kicks the ball into touch (either directly or first bouncing in the field of play or touching a player or the referee). Location of mark: Where the ball reaches the touchline. Who: Kicking team.

Time has expired. Red take PK for touch. As ball is about to cross touchline, Blue player jumps up and:

1. knocks ball backwards into touch : lineout to Red

2. knocks ball backwards into Fop : play on

3. knocks ball forward into FoP : end of half (assuming no advantage to Red)

4. knocks ball forward into touch : "Red captain, you have scrum/lineout option. If you choose scrum, end of half"

5. catches ball then places foot in touch : ???

I also wonder why they used "field of play" and not "playing area". Certainly unlikely, but PK lands in-goal then bounces backwards into touch : end of half

 

[Flish]

Time has expired. Red take PK for touch. As ball is about to cross touchline, Blue player jumps up and:

....

5. catches ball then places foot in touch : ???

So in effect that's caught the ball and taken into touch? Half ends, as not the same as touched backwards into touch?

 

[chbg]

If you want to be certain of getting the throw-in after a last second PK, just kick definitely into touch. Anything else risks not achieving your intent (cf mis-cueing into TiG).

 

[Dickie E]

If you want to be certain of getting the throw-in after a last second PK, just kick definitely into touch. Anything else risks not achieving your intent (cf mis-cueing into TiG).

of course. Similarly a goal kicker just needs to make sure the ball goes over the crossbar to avoid having to worry about what happens if it hits the post

 

[crossref]

If you want to be certain of getting the throw-in after a last second PK, just kick definitely into touch. Anything else risks not achieving your intent (cf mis-cueing into TiG).

which was what the law said before - had to be kicked 'directly' into touch.

but now they have softened the law saying it's OK if it bounces, clock is still on.


(Previous logic was that if it bounced then the ball was successfully returned to play, and then subsequently went into touch, time gone. Similar to logic used for kick offs - if it bounces the kick off is good, no options or anything)
I liked the old logic better, but I think the new version matches what most people expected.

 

[Phil E]

which was what the law said before - had to be kicked 'directly' into touch.

but now they have softened the law saying it's OK if it bounces, clock is still on.


(Previous logic was that if it bounced then the ball was successfully returned to play, and then subsequently went into touch, time gone. Similar to logic used for kick offs - if it bounces the kick off is good, no options or anything)
I liked the old logic better, but I think the new version matches what most people expected.

So does that now mean that if a kick off bounces into touch (after the clock is dead) that the game hasn't restarted and it has to be taken again? Just as if they kicked it straight into touch?

More unintended consequences?

I also like the fact that they call this adjustment to the law "unintended consequences of current law".

Which is a strange way to say we fu**ed up the re-write :biggrin:

 

[crossref]

So does that now mean that if a kick off bounces into touch (after the clock is dead) that the game hasn't restarted and it has to be taken again? Just as if they kicked it straight into touch?

:

excellent point.

more unintended consequences.

 

[didds]

The revised law 5.7c will now read: A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless a penalty is kicked directly into touch without the ball first being tapped and without the ball touching another player.

A restart/kick off is not a penalty kick.

So "no".

 

[crossref]

but

[LAWS]A scrum, lineout or restart kick following a try or touchdown, awarded before time expired, has not been completed and the ball has not returned to open play. This includes when the scrum, lineout or restart kick is taken incorrectly.[/LAWS]

so is it copmpleted when it bunces

 

[Martin Doughty]

What happens if:
The after time penalty is kicked, by the Red team, towards touch;
The ball hits a Blue defenders foot;
It goes into touch;


From what I read here we say "Keep on playing, throw to the Red team".


But what happens if:
The after time penalty is kicked, by the Red team, towards touch (in this case a huge kick downfield, behind the Blue defence, with lots of Red chasers);
The ball stops in-field next to the touch line;
The Blue full back wins the race to the ball and he taps it over the line into touch without picking it up ;
??? WHAT NOW ???;


To my mind the correct decision here is blow the whistle for the end of time.
But if I follow these new guidelines the decision should be "Keep on playing, throw to the Red team".


Maybe the new guidance should be re-worded to differentiate between the ball touching a player and the ball being played by a player?

 

[Camquin]

A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired, unless a penalty is kicked directly into touch without the ball first being tapped and without the ball touching another player.

I think that includes a player touching the ball. Of course if the blue player throws it into touch, that could be a different matter. It would be a fresh penalty.

 

[Dickie E]

Rereading these 2 sentences:

The revised law 5.7c will now read: A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless a penalty is kicked into touch without the ball first being tapped and without the ball touching another player.

In practice this will mean: Ball is kicked from a penalty – A player kicks the ball into touch (either directly or first bouncing in the field of play or touching a player or the referee). Location of mark: Where the ball reaches the touchline. Who: Kicking team.

Is it just me or are they contradictory?

The law says [LAWS]A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless a penalty is kicked into touch without the ball first being tapped and without the ball touching another player.[/LAWS] which means that a lineout will take place in all circumstances unless the ball is tapped or touches another player.

The 2nd sentence says the lineout will take place even if the ball touches another player.

 

[Phil E]

Rereading these 2 sentences:



Is it just me or are they contradictory?

The law says [LAWS]A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless a penalty is kicked into touch without the ball first being tapped and without the ball touching another player.[/LAWS] which means that a lineout will take place in all circumstances unless the ball is tapped or touches another player.

The 2nd sentence says the lineout will take place even if the ball touches another player.

No it's not just you :shrug:

 

[crossref]

Rereading these 2 sentences:



Is it just me or are they contradictory?

The law says [LAWS]A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless a penalty is kicked into touch without the ball first being tapped and without the ball touching another player.[/LAWS] which means that a lineout will take place in all circumstances unless the ball is tapped or touches another player.

The 2nd sentence says the lineout will take place even if the ball touches another player.

I don't think it means that

But I agree it's very hard to parse , it's a exception to an exception, with a problematic 'and'

(brackets would help)

 

[Dickie E]

I don't think it means that

what do you think it means?

 

[Camquin]

The without being tapped is irrelevant. If it has been tapped it is no longer a penalty. If you want to add that as a clarifying note.
I am sure it could have been written as

A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless a penalty is kicked into touch without touching a player.

As it is, if the kicker chases it, attempts to regathers it and knocks it into touch play should continue, as it has not touched another player.

 

[crossref]

Even better wording would be

A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless a penalty is kicked directly into touch