Newcastle RC

[didds]

or push an explanation out to everyone via an app .

Im presuming that is a tongue in cheek suggestion ;-)

 

[Locke]

get all of that.

So why not at the next downtime demonstrate and talk through the decision "on field" ?

Wouldn’t it then make more sense to just do it on the field when it happens?

 

[didds]

its not a hill I'll die on, but potentially a "here is the reasoning everybody" would be quicxker than

" do you think this? I think this?
Well I see that.
Yes. I see this.
Is that the same as your this
Im seeing the other.
The other is the same as that.
Is the other the same as this.
I think this and that is the same as the other.
Good - so we are agreed that the other is the same as this, but what about that?
Indeed. That is the same as this.
What about the other?
they are all the same.
Agreed.
This, that and the other are the same.
[ entire To4 forgets the foul play law entirely).
Its a PK only then.
PEEEP"

 

[crossref]

Im presuming that is a tongue in cheek suggestion ;-)

not at all - in an app or on twitter would be ideal

eg in the premiership the premiership app already provides a running timeline of the game noting all scores, all RC and YC and all substitutions. (it also has the line ups and details of the MO)
When I am attending a game in person (I often go to watch Quins) i regularly refer to the app id I want to look back or of I want to (for instance) see who is left on the bench etc etc .

the app would clearly include the fact that a YC had been upgraded to RC, and no reason why it couldn't provide a paragraph with the reason - and indeed even a link to a video clip.

and on twitter Again premier rugby and teams already tweet clips of the game during the game


Most people probably don't care, so can easily ignore it and for them much better than lengthy on-pitch stuff.
the people who do care follow on twitter

 

[didds]

so everybody HAS to own and take a smartphone to the game, with sufficient data (or availability of wifi) and that data / wifi provision have sufficient bandwidth to cover a large crowd all using it at the same moment, also with sufficient battery to remain powered up.

thats a big ask for something that can be done with the existing infrastructure in the ground wrt screens and PA.

 

[Stu10]

Oh, good spot!

This totally explains the referee's decision in this case, and I really hope the DC doesn't mess things up by overturning it.

It makes me wonder...

Given that this new guidance is dated March 9, 2023, shouldn't the DC have been using it in the Freddie Steward case? The match was on Sat March 18th, and the hearing was the following Tuesday, March 21st.

And if the DC were using the new guidance, shouldn't they have realised that reckless play under 9.11 could never have warranted mitigation under this framework because it's always illegal?

The confusion deepens!!

Does this mean any head contact under Law 9.11 is a red with no option for mitigation?

IMHO, the biggest issue with the FS case is the fact that he had no intention to make contact with Green #15 and had to adopt a body shape of some sort, and it was arguably a total accident that it was his elbow that made contact.

 

[crossref]

so everybody HAS to own and take a smartphone to the game, with sufficient data (or availability of wifi) and that data / wifi provision have sufficient bandwidth to cover a large crowd all using it at the same moment, also with sufficient battery to remain powered up.

thats a big ask for something that can be done with the existing infrastructure in the ground wrt screens and PA.

didds, surely 99% of people already take their phone everywhere.

 

[Stu10]

didds, surely 99% of people already take their phone everywhere.

However, good luck getter the decision if you are on O2

 

[didds]

didds, surely 99% of people already take their phone everywhere.

maybe. I dunno.

my mum does. But its njot a smartphone.
my wife has a smartphone. But she rarely takes it out with her for the day.
Im in a theatre company currently with a bloke half my age who wont have a smartphone. He has a text and speak job.
My mum's chum hasnt any sort of mobile phone.
My mum-in-law has a text and speak but only ever turns it on if she needs to use it to - well, text or speak.
I have friends that live in the wilds of rural wales and scotland where there is no signal, so they dont own any mobile device as its pointless owning one.


And personally Im of the opinion once you start assuming "everybody" has this sort of access then sections of society get excluded.
meanwhile Ive been in a ground where despite 5 bars and allegedly 4G i couldn't get a connection to anything as all the bandwidth was being used already.

 

[crossref]

how many of those (a) go to rugby matches and (b) would be interested in the actual reasons about why a YC was upgraded to a RC?

I think we can be pretty sure it's a small population and and they will have a phone capable of receiving tweets

bandwidth can be a problem at stadiums - still can be at Twickenham, isn't a t Quins. and 5G is solving it steadily

and, really, I am not disucssing a mechanism for providing instructions in an emergency. It's nice-to-have frill for discipline geeks.

 

[didds]

i dunno. You asked "surely 99% of people already take their phone everywhere."

I answered that question.

Iniit.

 

[crossref]

i dunno. You asked "surely 99% of people already take their phone everywhere."

I answered that question.

Iniit.

yes I could have said 'people [who attend live rugby matches]'
(yes, I do go with and older realtive who doesn't have a phone - but then again neither would he be interested in precisely why a YC was upgraded into a RC, and if it was explained over the PA he wouldn't be able to hear it )

 

[didds]

buy him a hearing aid?

 

[tim White]

didds, surely 99% of people already take their phone everywhere.

I am of an age where I am not welded to my phone, I hope others are the same.

 

[Phil E]

And personally Im of the opinion once you start assuming "everybody" has this sort of access then sections of society get excluded.
meanwhile Ive been in a ground where despite 5 bars and allegedly 4G i couldn't get a connection to anything as all the bandwidth was being used already.

Unless the club has put in provision for a separate system (very expensive) you won't get everyone connecting because the local mast will only be able to manage a certain number of connections (usually in the hundreds), it's not about the bandwidth, it's about being able to connect to the local mast. Like a Wi-Fi access point there is limit on how many connections it can manage.

 

[didds]

Unless the club has put in provision for a separate system (very expensive) you won't get everyone connecting because the local mast will only be able to manage a certain number of connections (usually in the hundreds), it's not about the bandwidth, it's about being able to connect to the local mast. Like a Wi-Fi access point there is limit on how many connections it can manage.

thats what I meant yeah

 

[crossref]

Unless the club has put in provision for a separate system (very expensive) you won't get everyone connecting because the local mast will only be able to manage a certain number of connections (usually in the hundreds), it's not about the bandwidth, it's about being able to connect to the local mast. Like a Wi-Fi access point there is limit on how many connections it can manage.

that's for those connecting via SIM, and at Twickenham stadium (80,000) it's hard to connect, but at the Stoop over the road (14,000) no problem.
of course you can also provide WiFi in stadiums.
And phone and wifi infrastructure is improving all the time, more masts, more connections, more SIM enabled devises etc etc

Anyway here I think we have lost sight of what we are discussing
- the idea is that complicated, lengthy borderline YC/RC decisions should be removed from the pitch as (1) they take too long (2) potential for crowd to influence the result by howling at the replays.
- so if you take them indoors, offline, how do you communicate the results to the crowd

1 - obviously the PA will announce : ding-dong : the YC shown to Joe Bloggs has been upgraded to RC
2 - I doubt the PA will say much more than that ??
3 - but we could easily provide more details (to that proportion of the crowd who are even interested) digitally. Twitter would be a good way, using the premiership app would be another.
4 - I don't really see any other way to do it, other than PA announcement or digitally? but open to ideas.

And let's not forget most of the crowd con't even bother with ref-link now, so they aren't that interested in fine details.

 

[Locke]

It is apparently an unpopular opinion but my perspective of the foul play deliberations in recent international and professional rugby matches (i.e. the six nations and super rugby) is that they have not taken excessively long. I find the referees are now generally going through the HCP efficiently and without excessive replay watching, and I prefer seeing the deliberation in front of me than behind closed doors.

 

[crossref]

me as well, but we are referees.

In the stadium the vast majority of people (I note) don't have reflink, so they are seeing the replays only with none of the conversation or reasoning. - I conclude that they are not bothered to really understand it
- and I imagine that without the audio it must seem a long and boring process.

 

[Arabcheif]

So if we are going to give RC for this (which I totally understand) then we really need the 20 minute rule thing

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1639358676996878336

Not sure I follow. Is this the 20 min thing when a player is sent off but can be replaced after 20mins?